The hereditary connection between ADHD, Autism, & my own diagnosis

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Beyond the Spectrum every age every need I am Sean Francis today.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is a solo venture, a little different for that and some other reasons that we'll get right into it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to another episode of Beyond the Spectrum.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, um, before we get started, I want to thank our partners Billy Footwear, makers of Adaptive Footwear for everyone.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The Thunderbilly Price is an amazing individual who suffered a catastrophic injury that left him paralyzed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He had to learn how to do everything for himself all over again.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And he was able to do the do so with the exception of

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[SPEAKER_00]: putting his shoes on, and a prototype was built, Billy Footwear was born, they sold well over a million pairs of shoes, touch countless lives, and they are a great company with a great cause.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you click on the link that you will find in the show notes, you will get 10% off your final purchase, and that includes when they have sales as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: These are shoes that are functional and look great as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And if you or somewhere you know as a male caregiver or father,

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[SPEAKER_00]: to someone with a disability or special needs, like to encourage you to join us for our bi-weekly men support group, which is known as the DIN.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a place where we're able to connect, speak with each other, and be seen, be heard, let people know that they are not alone,

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[SPEAKER_00]: and it's been rewarding experience.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was created for men who just need to be reminded that they're not alone and we have a great time with it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We have members from Mexico City to the East Coast, the West Coast various places.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So let's kind of get right into today's episode.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how long this episode is going to go.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is a different level of vulnerability that I'm sharing here, but the show was created to remind people that they are not alone.

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[SPEAKER_00]: to remind people that we have more in common than we do otherwise.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the idea is, just as the title says, beyond the spectrum, so it's beyond autism, it's beyond any diagnosis or the experience that someone may have just as a caregiver, because I sincerely believe that,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Caregiving and special needs is connected to everything.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, is that just because of my perspective, because our son is 19 and diagnosed with autism in the age of three, yes, in part.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I've also learned through that experience that several things, for someone that's listening and caregiving might seem like it's something that's foreign to them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you're blessed with a remotely long life, you're going to become a member of the caregiving special needs community.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to gain temporary membership through an injury or illness of your own.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to gain membership because you're caring for a family member or someone you know in love.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Or you're going to gain membership because someone ends up caring for you as you age.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And anything that matters to the general population matters to our community 10 times more.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that includes knowing that your matter, being seen, being loved, being heard,

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[SPEAKER_00]: all those things that are part of the human experience.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so, that's kind of where I want to start.

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[SPEAKER_00]: As a caregiver, I have noticed things over the years with my son's behavior that caused me to wonder about the way I process things.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hosting our previous podcast, just two dads, and now we'll be on the spectrum as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Over 200 episodes,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have had the opportunity to have conversations with various professionals and it's caused me to look at myself and I am also one who often talks about raising consciousness being more childlike than childish, being curious about things and always striving to personally and spiritually develop just to be the best person that I can possibly be.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I recently began seeing a therapist.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I just had a couple appointments that didn't go that long.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I can see them again as need be.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But it was about exploration.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was starting to get some very clear,

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[SPEAKER_00]: is the best way to put this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think for most of us, our mirror where we see ourselves is not necessarily clear.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Some of us are filled with ego and we see ourselves in ways that are maybe greater than we are.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But for most of us, I think we don't see ourselves as great as we are, and we sell ourselves short.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And through the caregiving and parenting experience,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I've noticed behaviors of my son that are exaggerated versions of things that I might do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I began to think about my academic struggles and not just the struggles themselves, but the way in which I perceive them at the time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Coming from the Caribbean, being from the US

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[SPEAKER_00]: And everything was about getting good grades.

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[SPEAKER_00]: People would say, we're going to go to school.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how they would say it, as though everything prior to high school was so elementary that real school began at college.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to go to school, what are you going to study?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And even in...

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[SPEAKER_00]: elementary school, they would not only say, and this is really old school, maybe this is a Caribbean thing, I don't know, but they wouldn't just say, what kind of grades you're getting.

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[SPEAKER_00]: When people would see you, they say, you know, how's it going?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Have you been?

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[SPEAKER_00]: What kind of grades you're getting?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Or they would say, what kind of mark are you getting?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like a grade is known as a mark, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's as much of a stamp as you could possibly,

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[SPEAKER_00]: give or say it, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, I was always almost always physically in class.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I had a good attendance record, but I was almost always mentally absent.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was just always someplace else sitting in the classroom.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I just set a challenge sitting there and focusing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was intrigued by things, but I just I didn't do well on tests and what teachers tend to do is if they notice

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[SPEAKER_00]: Mr. Francis, what is the capital of so-and-so?

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[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to ask the question, whose answer was just given that they know you don't have because you weren't paying attention.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you're left to do one of two things.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Guess and pull a number out of your behind or answer, or just be honest and say, well, I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Unless you get the right answer, what happens is there's embarrassment that ensues because what does everybody else do?

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[SPEAKER_00]: They laugh.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I realized over the years that that stayed with me more than I ever realized.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so my desire to learn and read books on my own and everything and just learn really serve well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I took a basic class and college, you know, like one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: a weekend.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it might have even been a music class and the College of the Virgin Islands, which is not known as the University of the Virgin Islands.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I never went to college because I didn't, there wasn't anything that I wanted to pursue academically, but there was something that was told that you should do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And my dad when I was telling me, you should go, you need to go to law school.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You like to talk.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You like to have conversations with people.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You're intellectual

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[SPEAKER_00]: you could get these grades on a regular basis if you would just really try and apply yourself.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And my goodness I thought I was, you know, we had many of my teachers, at least a couple of them, came to our home to Tudomy and I went to theirs and I had been tested all kinds of things.

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[SPEAKER_00]: My parents did everything that they possibly could for a child of the 70s to try and figure out why is there this gap between

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[SPEAKER_00]: the man or wish this child presents when he speaks versus his academic journey.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What is it?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Never had a diagnosis.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Never.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Quite frankly, I repeated the fourth grade.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember, I think it was second to third grade.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It suggested that I repeat that because the thought was that if I didn't, I would really struggle if I were to advance.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And my mom said, no, we're not going to do that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But when it came to fourth grade,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I did repeat it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And when you're on an island that's 32 square miles, it's small community.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody knows everyone.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So when the new school year begins, those that were in my class in third grade with me have gone on to, in fourth grade with me have gone on to fifth grade.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So when I enter the classroom on the first day of school, there's a kind of

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[SPEAKER_00]: that class consisted of a lot of the siblings of people who had advanced one great ahead and were my classmates that year before.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So there's just this thing that, oh, he got left back, he has to repeat.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And what would be said about someone that didn't get the best grades was that a person was dumb and it wasn't even in a way that was like, they were teasing you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was just as though

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[SPEAKER_00]: they're speaking just as though your pants are green or blue so until it's done like that's just a personality trait or something.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway those things took place and I began to get very curious about

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[SPEAKER_00]: myself and who I was and on my life I had been but over the last couple months been going through some real self discovery and between the show speaking with professionals and observing my son and some of his characteristics that come with autism, I

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[SPEAKER_00]: did two things I began seeing at their epist, but then I knew that as far as I diagnosed this is concerned, that would only take place with an actual psychiatrist.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I made an appointment to see how psychiatrists also.

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[SPEAKER_00]: First person I saw.

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[SPEAKER_00]: asked me a couple of questions, I admitted that I wasn't sleeping that well, and they said, well, I think you were not really sleeping well, and that's it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything else?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And under that, that wasn't the person I wanted to speak.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Speak with.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That wasn't a fit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted someone to ask me questions, and, you know, they kind of dug and went through a questionnaire and everything to make an assessment.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And

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[SPEAKER_00]: I had my suspicions confirmed that I too am neurodivergent.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have been diagnosed with ADHD and there's a revelation on several levels.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was already in a place where I'm secure enough with myself where I knew that if I were to hear that there's a diagnosis, it would give me some relief or explanation because what I was seeking is a language that suits the manner in which I process information.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I believe I've come to believe over the years that everyone is intelligent, everyone has a different level, a different type of intelligence or a language, not to be confused or not too different from

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[SPEAKER_00]: the book, the five love languages.

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[SPEAKER_00]: One is called Acts of Service, Acts of Effections.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Those are two different love languages.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And they're exactly what they sound like.

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[SPEAKER_00]: A person who has a language of a love language of Acts of Service is one who believes that by going to work every day and providing for the family, they are showing, not only showing that they love, but that's their way of saying I love you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So they may not be the most affectionate person.

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[SPEAKER_00]: but you might have someone else who's very affectionate, acts of affection would be their love language, where they're very touching, affectionate, they hug.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And what happens often is you have two people that are both saying I love you, each speaking a different love language, and neither one knows that the other is saying the same thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So if you know the manner in which you,

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[SPEAKER_00]: process information and communicate.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It strengthens your ability to see yourself, how you communicate, and be able to communicate with others.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It impacts everything.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It impacts your capacity to love, to give love, to receive love, and that goes back to then our self image.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was able to

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[SPEAKER_00]: do what I think is get clear on myself image to begin with before I had this diagnosis.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So the other thing that's taking place in my life, for most of my life, is that my brain, or my mouth, can't keep up with my brain or my mind.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So as I'm speaking to you, in most cases, I can be very engaged in the conversation that I'm having, but I'm thinking about either the next thing,

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[SPEAKER_00]: drifting off in a different thought or what I'm doing is I have more than one thing that I want to express and as I'm expressing one, the other is right here just waiting to come out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So what happens at times is speech can be very, very fast and you can't get all the ideas out of one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's also why when it comes to certain tasks and especially creative ones, I

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[SPEAKER_00]: me struggle in doing that because I'm doing one thing the next one counts and I'm trying to focus on one so I can complete it and it really is a very big help and so what that means for me what it has meant I should say is I have clarity I can see myself I wish I could go back and speak to that kid in school that everybody laughed at and I just tell

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[SPEAKER_00]: like to be able to sit down with him, let him know, hey, you have more to offer your special, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: You're more than you realize.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you're going to be okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But now I know what I know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have clarity as to why he didn't

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[SPEAKER_00]: still long enough to focus on the thing that was in front of him.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I would feel like I was going to explode just having to sit and write something.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not talking about hyperactivity in terms of getting up and running around, but just not able to focus and sit and get through an academic task.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then the other thing I realized is that those were things that I was supposed to do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I like some of the subjects and that's where I think the good grades would come in so it wasn't a matter of applying myself It was about maybe my interest because anything and some in life that I seek to learn on my own of my own volition those are things that I've Done well at when it comes to any kind of

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[SPEAKER_00]: academia or testing or anything like that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So for someone that might be struggling, it makes sense for them to understand the way that they process things.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the other thing I've learned just generally speaking aside from the diagnosis itself is self images everything.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I went through this personal development manifestation course last week and they talked about

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[SPEAKER_00]: were commonly told that our habits are everything and they're huge.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I understand that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I get that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like dreams don't come true.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was at dreams don't work unless you do, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have a sign in here that says that in my office.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But,

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[SPEAKER_00]: James, don't work unless you do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So your habits change your life.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Your thoughts reflect your habits and your habits get you where you are in life, where you are or are not in life is greatly tight here at habits.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But you could change your habits all day long.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it takes a certain amount of time to from act to become a habit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It can become that habit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But if your self-image is not clear,

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not something that serves you, those habits are only going to be temporary.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Your habits are always going to revert to and be in direct correlation with that self-image.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And for most of us, as I said, our mirrors are metaphorically speaking, very dirty.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We don't see who we are clearly.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I believe that who we think we are is something that we see with sight, but our self-image is seen with vision.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Those are two different things.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Sight is what you see with your eyes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Vision is more of what you see with your soul.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like the first thing that comes to mind when you think of yourself.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And because most of us come into this world, in a manner that I think is usually as close to

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[SPEAKER_00]: We have no limit on our love, we treat people based upon the content or lack there of other character, not based on a color of their skin or anything, whether gender or anything like that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And if we run and we fall.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We may break a bone, bleed, but we're going to get right back up and we're resilient.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're the best that we can possibly be.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And as we get older, we lose some of that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So people will even say that in a matter that I think is very interesting.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You'll hear people say, kids are resilient.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Kids are going, kids are this kids are that, well, we were children at one time, we're the

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[SPEAKER_00]: five and four and three years old filled with optimism.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What happens those, the very people who would take a bullet for us will tell us to maybe we should slow down, you shouldn't run.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Be careful so you don't hurt yourself.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then what happens is metaphorically speaking, as well as literally speaking, we run on less, we try just a little less.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All those things matter.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it is then no wonder

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we don't know Jake religion, for instance, most people that have a religion, it's one that was put upon them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's not something that you choose.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So being a parent is a very...

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[SPEAKER_00]: self-ish thing to an extent and what I mean by that is when you decide to bring a child into the world, you have all these ideas as to, you know, the close of the baby's going to wear and as a toddler, as a parent you want to introduce them to your favorite.

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[SPEAKER_00]: music artist, your favorite sports team, your favorite movies, whatever have you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a certain amount of influence that is put upon us to begin with.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's no wonder that we might have some distortion as to who we really truly are, because this thing that we gravitate to that are really us.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But what we see when we look in the mirror and what we think about ourselves,

19:51.254 --> 19:53.036
[SPEAKER_00]: It's usually not that clear.

19:53.396 --> 20:05.947
[SPEAKER_00]: And for myself personally, I know that when I would look in the mirror, I would not, I'd feel a lack of connection to the person that I see, sometimes in pictures also.

20:05.967 --> 20:11.833
[SPEAKER_00]: And that wasn't a bad thing is just a fact.

20:11.933 --> 20:14.235
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know how else to describe that.

20:14.255 --> 20:20.080
[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing is difficult for me is that I'm not a person

20:20.566 --> 20:35.188
[SPEAKER_00]: outwardly lacking of confidence in my life, and so where I am not confident, might not necessarily jump out at me.

20:35.429 --> 20:43.641
[SPEAKER_00]: So in many cases, I wasn't even aware of what I was unsure because going back to those classroom situations or people were laughing at you.

20:44.182 --> 20:47.367
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, to say, I don't know what I'm not sure.

20:48.342 --> 20:53.307
[SPEAKER_00]: Man in the beginning, my early years, this is just a real difficult thing to say.

20:53.371 --> 21:00.359
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I found over time is that I don't know is one of the most intelligent things, one of the most intelligent things that one could ever say.

21:01.220 --> 21:03.903
[SPEAKER_00]: And what matters is how it's said as well.

21:04.023 --> 21:08.928
[SPEAKER_00]: You could easily say, when someone asks you a question about something, oh, I don't know.

21:09.529 --> 21:11.852
[SPEAKER_00]: And appear uncertain.

21:11.952 --> 21:14.855
[SPEAKER_00]: And possibly in some cases, it's a prayer less than intelligent.

21:15.276 --> 21:18.339
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you can also say, I have no idea.

21:19.020 --> 21:21.943
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me find out, or I can find out and get back to you.

21:21.923 --> 21:32.215
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's there's no shame in not knowing if you lived to be a thousand years old, you're probably never learned everything that there is to learn no matter how hard you try.

21:32.816 --> 21:35.339
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's something else to embrace all together.

21:36.260 --> 21:46.612
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had to get to what happened to get to a very comfortable secure place about who I am by the time this diagnosis came about.

21:47.193 --> 21:49.956
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what I got curious about is

21:50.982 --> 22:11.675
[SPEAKER_00]: the connection between several things, the connection between autism and ADHD, as well as the possibility that some of these neurodivergent challenges might be hereditary in some way.

22:11.695 --> 22:12.737
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I did is,

22:13.595 --> 22:21.205
[SPEAKER_00]: I looked up some information, and this is by way of Gemini, which is Google's AI.

22:21.966 --> 22:25.471
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's some of the things that I learned.

22:25.491 --> 22:27.934
[SPEAKER_00]: So what's referred to as the genetic recipe is as follows.

22:28.154 --> 22:36.025
[SPEAKER_00]: ADHD is one of the most heritable conditions in existence often compared to height in terms of how much DNA influences it.

22:37.237 --> 22:48.934
[SPEAKER_00]: the 74-84-80% rule says that research consistently shows that the herobility of ADHD is between 74-80%.

22:50.315 --> 23:00.246
[SPEAKER_00]: The parent child link, what that means is that if a parent is ADHD, there is an estimated 50 to 57% chance that their child will also have it.

23:00.847 --> 23:06.854
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's also a sibling connection, siblings of children with ADHD are nine times more likely to have it than the general population.

23:07.134 --> 23:08.015
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the other thing for me.

23:08.736 --> 23:19.528
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that I might be diagnosed with ADD, not ADHD because the H as an hyper, I associated

23:19.964 --> 23:25.571
[SPEAKER_00]: as hyperactivity in terms of bouncing off the walls, high energy, that kind of thing.

23:25.691 --> 23:29.035
[SPEAKER_00]: But the hyper that it's referring to is hyperfocus.

23:29.615 --> 23:40.688
[SPEAKER_00]: So being able to having hyperfocus on a given thing and it might not be the thing that you are trying to or need to get accomplished.

23:40.708 --> 23:44.132
[SPEAKER_00]: And all of these things can also serve as I think.

23:44.990 --> 23:53.608
[SPEAKER_00]: a superpower or gift if you figure out how to use it, this goes back to knowing what your language of intelligence is.

23:54.472 --> 23:54.713
[SPEAKER_00]: I

23:55.385 --> 24:04.799
[SPEAKER_00]: have an analogy that I often refer to as, you know, when Superman first came to Earth, as Calel from Krypton, we need to discover that he had heat vision.

24:05.280 --> 24:06.441
[SPEAKER_00]: It probably wasn't a cool thing.

24:06.982 --> 24:11.589
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure that John and Martha can't want to make sure that he didn't burn down the barn, which he could easily do.

24:12.170 --> 24:17.157
[SPEAKER_00]: However, I would bet that over a period of time he was able to heat up a cup of coffee from a mile away.

24:17.592 --> 24:34.554
[SPEAKER_00]: to a perfect temperature without harming anyone else in the process and that's not much different than any other, you know, gift that may have a downside that you're trying to make sure that you know how to maximize as well.

24:34.874 --> 24:43.045
[SPEAKER_00]: So in conversations with people, I mentioned earlier my mouth not being able to keep up with the thoughts that I have.

24:43.466 --> 24:45.388
[SPEAKER_00]: The same thing is set of just

24:46.634 --> 24:55.548
[SPEAKER_00]: anxiously wanting to get out what I have to say, which means that I have to also always work on my listening skills also.

24:56.730 --> 25:10.212
[SPEAKER_00]: And then if the listening is taking place at the most productive or effective level, I'm capable of connecting with people and

25:11.440 --> 25:26.479
[SPEAKER_00]: Communicating my own thoughts and everything in a very effective way if I don't do that and work on the listening part then it's not as much of a gift and it becomes more of a hindrance so those things always take place so the undiagnosed parent

25:26.645 --> 25:39.185
[SPEAKER_00]: That statistic says in clinical settings, it's estimated that 41 to 55% of families with an ADHD child have at least one parent who also meets the diagnostic criteria.

25:39.666 --> 25:44.113
[SPEAKER_00]: And what happens is they're often undiagnosed until the child's evaluation.

25:44.474 --> 25:47.539
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, I think that goes back to the fact that most of us don't,

25:48.835 --> 25:52.179
[SPEAKER_00]: have a high level of self-reflection or self-awareness.

25:52.239 --> 25:54.361
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't even think about what we think about.

25:55.343 --> 26:01.750
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a measurable value in thinking about what you think about most of us live our lives in autopilot, I've said it before you.

26:02.491 --> 26:06.295
[SPEAKER_00]: You have instances where you pull into your driveway or into your parking space.

26:07.036 --> 26:10.540
[SPEAKER_00]: And especially if you're coming home from work,

26:10.520 --> 26:16.269
[SPEAKER_00]: And other than the fact that you didn't run a stop sign or a red light, you don't really know how you got home.

26:16.870 --> 26:23.200
[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't see other details along the way because it's just your own such autopilot.

26:23.220 --> 26:25.765
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we don't have a great sense of self-awareness.

26:25.785 --> 26:29.931
[SPEAKER_00]: So the same applies to who we are and things we do.

26:30.632 --> 26:33.557
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't stop and pay attention to

26:35.174 --> 26:36.196
[SPEAKER_00]: how we do things.

26:36.216 --> 26:40.024
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't think about what we think about everything is just automatic.

26:40.464 --> 26:48.300
[SPEAKER_00]: And so therefore, it's no wonder that I don't think most people have a clear self-image as to who they really, really truly are at their core.

26:48.941 --> 26:56.997
[SPEAKER_00]: So what it's referred to as the mirror effect says that the moment you realize you thought,

26:57.348 --> 27:04.444
[SPEAKER_00]: You thought the things that you thought were quirks in your child actually mirrors your own internal struggles.

27:04.845 --> 27:08.072
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is often the catalyst for an adult diagnosis.

27:08.453 --> 27:10.618
[SPEAKER_00]: This is when it comes to ADHD specifically.

27:11.299 --> 27:13.905
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you have generational healing that

27:15.100 --> 27:27.040
[SPEAKER_00]: is needed because framing a late diagnosis as a disorder, but a way to break cycles is what takes place when you understand your brain.

27:27.501 --> 27:33.290
[SPEAKER_00]: You're able to model self-compassion for your children instead of the tri-harder mentality.

27:33.731 --> 27:37.497
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's times that my son does things that I have to be reminded that

27:38.962 --> 27:41.371
[SPEAKER_00]: It's his autism is why he's doing that.

27:41.532 --> 27:45.768
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, if he's especially he's resistant to something that I may be telling you.

27:45.948 --> 27:49.883
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I was raised by a father who, you know,

27:50.842 --> 27:57.393
[SPEAKER_00]: says that, you know, you do as you're told, you don't talk back and you don't necessarily, you know, resist you do as you're told.

27:58.034 --> 28:12.177
[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes there's things that takes place, that take place, that autism gets in the way that may make it difficult to carry out a task or the manner in which you communicate those tasks.

28:12.477 --> 28:17.305
[SPEAKER_00]: And by the same talking what some of us do

28:18.803 --> 28:27.463
[SPEAKER_00]: a meeting or acting, you know, a behavior that is exclusive to autism, but it is quite frankly just the norm behavior of a.

28:28.186 --> 28:31.529
[SPEAKER_00]: trial that's that age, maybe a teenager or whatever the case might be.

28:31.569 --> 28:41.938
[SPEAKER_00]: I've had a couple instances not as many now where I would say, I would give an example of something that my son might do and someone will say, well, isn't that a routine ageer?

28:42.459 --> 28:45.281
[SPEAKER_00]: And I kind of stopped from your tracks and you're going, yeah, I guess it is.

28:45.642 --> 28:55.370
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you're so busy doing what you do, again, not always thinking about the consciousness thinking about what you think about, you're just doing what you do and you don't realize that.

28:55.551 --> 28:58.193
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the same is true, I've said this

28:58.173 --> 29:03.739
[SPEAKER_00]: The idea of being a caregiver, I identify my wife and I as caregivers.

29:03.759 --> 29:23.218
[SPEAKER_00]: We identify as caregivers, only in the last, less than five years, and that's because you're just doing what you do, and as far as your concern, I'm just being a parent, and in many cultures, you know, someone's just being a beautiful child of their caring for an elderly parent.

29:24.076 --> 29:29.483
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you don't even think of yourself as a caregiver, but it is important to identify that.

29:29.863 --> 29:32.206
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's tied to self-image, too, because that's part of who you are.

29:33.388 --> 29:36.512
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you look at what they refer to as the double in the household.

29:36.992 --> 29:44.582
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you talk about a unique chaos, brilliance of a household where multiple people are newer, divergent, it's often a high energy creative, but

29:44.562 --> 29:47.186
[SPEAKER_00]: executive function challenge environment.

29:47.327 --> 29:50.071
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure that there's many households for which that applies.

29:50.953 --> 29:57.945
[SPEAKER_00]: There's also the grief cycle on this something that I don't necessarily relate to myself.

29:58.366 --> 30:05.838
[SPEAKER_00]: So many late diagnosed adults go through a period of grieving for the younger version of themselves who didn't get the support they needed.

30:06.559 --> 30:08.663
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad I'm reading that because

30:09.335 --> 30:18.985
[SPEAKER_00]: I got the support that I needed, I just didn't have a diagnosis, my parents did everything that they could to try and figure out why I struggled academically.

30:21.428 --> 30:27.274
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't have that grieving cycle.

30:27.874 --> 30:35.342
[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing is, again, this is why I think it's important to suffer like to study,

30:35.558 --> 30:40.436
[SPEAKER_00]: get to know yourself to raise your consciousness to understand that there's never too many questions you can ask.

30:41.881 --> 30:45.535
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I had a clearer self image by the time that diagnosis came.

30:47.405 --> 31:01.021
[SPEAKER_00]: and the stage of like that life that I am at and in right now, I realize whole heartedly that regret is an emotion that carries a luxury that few of us can afford.

31:01.181 --> 31:08.509
[SPEAKER_00]: Really quite frankly none of us can afford unless you have a time machine and I don't know anybody that has one because you can't do anything about that which has been done.

31:09.070 --> 31:14.256
[SPEAKER_00]: But I've heard it said that you can change the past.

31:15.181 --> 31:17.964
[SPEAKER_00]: to an extent and here's what I mean by that.

31:18.885 --> 31:29.276
[SPEAKER_00]: If you think of an instance that had a negative effect on you, say for instance, people laughing at me in class.

31:29.997 --> 31:35.963
[SPEAKER_00]: If I hold on to the effect that it had upon me, nothing changes, right?

31:36.063 --> 31:44.192
[SPEAKER_00]: But if I go back to that time and I change the effect at that given moment,

31:45.218 --> 32:07.716
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if I look at it as a learning experience, regardless of how long it took to learn, and I give myself credit for coming through it, then I no longer scarred by people laughing or embarrassed or having any thought about who I am not or can't be versus who I am and could be.

32:07.814 --> 32:16.083
[SPEAKER_00]: So the meaning that we put upon things has everything to do with the and the value of it, has everything to do with its effect upon us.

32:16.223 --> 32:25.814
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just as, as has been said, we can't affect everything that takes place or happens to us but we can definitely control how we respond to it.

32:26.034 --> 32:35.104
[SPEAKER_00]: And you still have a choice to an option is to how you respond now to things that happened years ago.

32:36.856 --> 32:46.488
[SPEAKER_00]: So the other thing that happens, we just talked about it being hereditary, there's a fascinating, a very common dynamic.

32:46.508 --> 32:49.498
[SPEAKER_00]: So while a person, whether maybe different labels on paper,

32:51.098 --> 32:56.386
[SPEAKER_00]: with regard to ADHD and autism spectrum disorder, you are likely swimming in the same genetic pool.

32:56.526 --> 33:11.367
[SPEAKER_00]: The medical community, increasingly views ADHD and ASD, not as two separate silos, but as different expressions of the same neurodevelopment and developmental continuum.

33:11.748 --> 33:16.735
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me say that again, the medical community is increasingly viewing,

33:18.335 --> 33:31.073
[SPEAKER_00]: attention, deficit, hyper-disorder, and autism spectrum disorder, not as two separate silos, but as different expressions of the same neuro-developmental continuum.

33:31.815 --> 33:40.427
[SPEAKER_00]: That is, that's pretty, that's pretty eye-opening, and it's, it's an opportunity.

33:40.880 --> 33:53.397
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's an opportunity for us to learn more about ourselves and and and combat the challenges that come with the behavior or a diagnosis.

33:53.998 --> 34:05.453
[SPEAKER_00]: So when they look at sibling parent risk as if a parent has a ADHD, the likelihood of a child having autism is significantly higher than the general population.

34:05.652 --> 34:06.674
[SPEAKER_00]: and vice versa.

34:07.315 --> 34:09.158
[SPEAKER_00]: They're effectively cousin conditions.

34:09.679 --> 34:13.205
[SPEAKER_00]: So we've talked before, especially about men as men.

34:13.665 --> 34:28.751
[SPEAKER_00]: When a diagnosis takes place, one of the first things you have, and I know women that I've had the same thought as well, which is, you know, is there something that I did or didn't do in terms of nutrition during pregnancy?

34:29.151 --> 34:31.255
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there something that I may have passed on?

34:31.859 --> 34:37.626
[SPEAKER_00]: what blame is there that lies with me for this child's condition.

34:38.507 --> 34:50.140
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I wondered because of my struggles, whether or not my struggles, especially academically as a child, what the connection was between that and my son's autism.

34:50.821 --> 34:55.707
[SPEAKER_00]: And theoretically, there's what's known as shared brain machinery in

34:57.880 --> 34:59.823
[SPEAKER_00]: to some extent.

35:00.784 --> 35:04.510
[SPEAKER_00]: So both ADHD and ASD involve a highly sensitive nervous system.

35:05.051 --> 35:10.779
[SPEAKER_00]: So one can get overwhelmed by a long to do list that can be mean.

35:11.521 --> 35:14.345
[SPEAKER_00]: And you might get overwhelmed by a loud room.

35:15.326 --> 35:17.730
[SPEAKER_00]: I find that the older I get, I'm a little more sensitive to.

35:18.050 --> 35:19.112
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like right.

35:19.480 --> 35:26.570
[SPEAKER_00]: hearing is almost improved like I'm sensitive to the smallest sounds as I get over that wasn't really the case before.

35:26.890 --> 35:36.524
[SPEAKER_00]: So you also have dopamine and sensory processing, both of the conditions involve differences in how the brain processes rewards such as dopamine and sensory input.

35:37.245 --> 35:44.615
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, if you understand who you are, it makes a really big difference in terms of just being able to get through life.

35:45.056 --> 35:48.120
[SPEAKER_00]: So a different way to frame all of this is

35:48.556 --> 35:49.537
[SPEAKER_00]: especially in my case.

35:50.398 --> 35:57.446
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though my sense diagnosis is different from mine, ADHD likely gives me a secret language to understand his world.

35:58.147 --> 36:08.238
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's something I'm trying to come to grips with and find tuning the connection because it's times where I feel like I'm just trying to figure out what is he thinking, what is he trying to say?

36:09.279 --> 36:12.302
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the other thing is when a child is completely non-verbal,

36:15.961 --> 36:22.493
[SPEAKER_00]: It's different because you have to communicate either with a device or writing things down or your spell or whatever the case might be.

36:23.335 --> 36:32.772
[SPEAKER_00]: When a child has some verbal capability, it's almost a little, well, not almost, it is less predictable.

36:33.798 --> 36:36.762
[SPEAKER_00]: in terms of what they will be able to communicate.

36:36.802 --> 36:40.006
[SPEAKER_00]: There's things that they may be able to communicate clearly other things that are going to be a struggle.

36:40.046 --> 36:42.449
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don't necessarily know what you're going to get.

36:42.549 --> 36:44.912
[SPEAKER_00]: When one is non-verbal, that's a little bit more predictable.

36:44.972 --> 36:46.594
[SPEAKER_00]: It's to what that limitation is going to be.

36:47.135 --> 36:52.081
[SPEAKER_00]: In a situation where one is verbal, but not intellectually, able to express certain things.

36:52.141 --> 36:57.848
[SPEAKER_00]: For instance, in a leisure's case, he will struggle with words and communicating certain things.

36:58.029 --> 36:59.130
[SPEAKER_00]: But then,

36:59.110 --> 37:07.043
[SPEAKER_00]: get right through a sentence and an expression that would have you voting for him next week if you ran for office.

37:07.083 --> 37:08.225
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don't know what you're going to get.

37:08.265 --> 37:08.926
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little different.

37:09.487 --> 37:20.105
[SPEAKER_00]: So the sensory processing, autism is an ill-forcensory sensitivity, ADHD brains often struggle with sensory filtering.

37:20.906 --> 37:21.507
[SPEAKER_00]: And

37:21.976 --> 37:34.885
[SPEAKER_00]: one might find themselves unable to focus if there's a buzzing fridge or noise in the background, just as one with autism, they have an issue with texture, being unbearable.

37:35.006 --> 37:39.175
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, in my experience,

37:40.943 --> 37:43.729
[SPEAKER_00]: I've had both experiences as far as noise.

37:44.189 --> 37:50.161
[SPEAKER_00]: When I was studying for my licensees, financial services, I would have music on.

37:50.923 --> 37:55.772
[SPEAKER_00]: And it helped me later on, and that was 20 years ago.

37:56.474 --> 37:58.598
[SPEAKER_00]: Later on, what I would need to do is

37:58.696 --> 38:02.321
[SPEAKER_00]: have some silence in order to study.

38:02.341 --> 38:05.246
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's an evolution that has taken place with me.

38:05.706 --> 38:12.877
[SPEAKER_00]: So what it comes to emotional, do dysregulation both ADHD and autism involve big feelings that can feel like they come out of nowhere.

38:13.618 --> 38:16.022
[SPEAKER_00]: I can relate to that.

38:17.083 --> 38:25.716
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what happens there is there maybe

38:26.962 --> 38:37.678
[SPEAKER_00]: manifestation of some kind of irritability or impulsivity for someone with autism in my manifest as a meltdown or actually one shutting down.

38:37.758 --> 38:42.485
[SPEAKER_00]: What they're both a product of what they refer to as big feelings.

38:43.065 --> 38:47.231
[SPEAKER_00]: So sometimes behaviors identical but the reason can also be different.

38:47.252 --> 38:55.163
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what's really interesting in the connection between autism and ADHD.

38:55.312 --> 38:58.596
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, what's referred to as the shared language?

39:02.700 --> 39:06.644
[SPEAKER_00]: In that area, there's the similarities that we talked about.

39:06.724 --> 39:11.690
[SPEAKER_00]: So we talked about the same behavior, but a different why in terms of comparison.

39:12.090 --> 39:13.431
[SPEAKER_00]: So avoiding eye contact.

39:13.451 --> 39:21.420
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have that issue as part of my story, but one with ADHD, um,

39:23.138 --> 39:33.811
[SPEAKER_00]: a reason for avoiding eye content because it can be physically over-stimulating or invasive, like there is just too much data to process at once.

39:33.831 --> 39:37.976
[SPEAKER_00]: That part is my issue, at least not for the most part.

39:38.016 --> 39:47.187
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's been a couple times depending on how someone looks back, that it may cause me to look away, especially if the person is very intent.

39:47.988 --> 39:51.492
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's not too often.

39:52.501 --> 40:00.089
[SPEAKER_00]: And then with ADHD, as far as impulsivity, if I don't say my thought right now, it'll vanish into the void forever.

40:00.129 --> 40:01.971
[SPEAKER_00]: That I can relate to completely.

40:02.772 --> 40:13.503
[SPEAKER_00]: When it comes to some thoughts, I feel like I have to get out from a conversation with somebody, especially during the podcast or on a Zoom or something like that, I'll write down the thoughts or I make sure that I come back to it.

40:14.164 --> 40:15.726
[SPEAKER_00]: And for me, that was clarity.

40:15.806 --> 40:21.512
[SPEAKER_00]: That explains why, oh my gosh, that's why I feel like when I have a thought, it's got to get out right then and there.

40:21.492 --> 40:31.642
[SPEAKER_00]: And that can be a challenge when communicating with people where you're much more of a talker than you are listener and listening is something to always improve upon because everybody can talk, but people need to be heard.

40:32.503 --> 40:44.794
[SPEAKER_00]: So when it comes to the impulsivity with autism, the reason may be difficult, difficulty gauging natural gaps in conversation and not realizing that a specific cue means that the other person isn't finished yet.

40:45.315 --> 40:50.740
[SPEAKER_00]: That is something that

40:50.905 --> 40:55.692
[SPEAKER_00]: When it comes to melt-downs and outbursts, it's interesting.

40:56.172 --> 41:04.043
[SPEAKER_00]: For ADHD, the Y can be intense frustration, and when a task is just too boring, or too hard, dopamine is crashing.

41:04.103 --> 41:12.034
[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas with autism, the sensory overload, too much light, sudden distressing change and predictive routine, that may come about.

41:12.435 --> 41:14.938
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, this is the last one I'm gonna touch on here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Losing track of time, I feel like I do that all the time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Brady HD, the reason for that, is defined as time blindness.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The brain struggles to sequence events or estimate how long 15 minutes actually feels.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I feel that applies to me depending on what it is that I'm doing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: With autism, the Y might be what's known as monotropism.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So being so locked into a specific interest or task that the rest of the world, including the clock, completely ceases to exist.

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[SPEAKER_00]: some of that applies as well too.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, there's a risk of how should I say this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Over complicating what some of these things mean, because some of these behaviors are not exclusive to or tied to necessarily autism or ADHD, but things that everybody goes through.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so,

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, those are things to remember.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I know some people that feel that everybody is on the spectrum in some way, shape or form, or on some spectrum.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think as we begin to advance as a society, we'll find that those things are very true.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I felt walking to your home and you have a picture in a wall that's not crooked.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm either going to break out in a rash or have to straighten the picture.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That wasn't always the case.

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[SPEAKER_00]: with those things matter and those are I think there's a correlation between that and one on the spectrum who may line things up, you know, which is something that my son has gone through as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So all of this to say that I feel tremendous relief and feel like it's a blessing to have clarity upon my language.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And here's how I felt about even recording

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is the second one that I record it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know which one I'm going to publish.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And my first thought was, yes, I said, other people need to hear this because there's somebody else out there who may benefit from it and maybe in a similar situation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then I thought, wait a minute, what if I recorded and, you know, does somebody that holds that against me?

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's why you did that time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That explains it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, for half a second, maybe I even wondered if somebody would laugh?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But it wasn't enough for me to not do it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I recorded one version of it and did the same thing I've done today, which just hit recorded go.

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[SPEAKER_00]: not much of a script or format or anything other than the statistics that I just shared.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel even better about sitting here doing this now than I did days ago when I recorded the first verse because as each day progresses I feel better about the diagnosis but I also feel better about myself because myself images just clear.

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[SPEAKER_00]: When I look in the mirror I feel a connection

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[SPEAKER_00]: positive about them, then I ever have before.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not someone who's looked in the mirror and disliked the person that I saw or just like who I was.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the other thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: For me, not being someone who hung their head in was obviously,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, depressed about themselves.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So to speak, it made it difficult to, you know, I would have been moments of doubts like anybody else, but I usually bounce back from that, and it's very short, short live.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But not having my head down the whole time made make it difficult to identify where I'm not as certain about myself.

44:57.601 --> 45:01.364
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's another part of that is because I live to certain portion of my life, just an autopilot.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This whole idea of thinking more about what you think about is something that,

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[SPEAKER_00]: and wish I knew years ago.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So the main thing is I just want you to know that you're not alone, you know, whatever it is that you might be going through.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And everyone's situation is different.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We all need to be seen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We all need to be heard.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We all need to know that we are loved.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we need to be able to give love.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's a list of

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[SPEAKER_00]: experiences and emotions that are part of human need, that everyone needs.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Those things include, but are not limited to uncertainty, the ability to learn, the ability to connect all those things.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But those things matter twice as much as someone who's a caregiver because you are so busy doing what you do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I realize we realize here beyond the spectrum that everybody's situation is different that we can learn from each other.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so let's try and be a little bit more curious about each other and do what we can to make ourselves the best that we possibly can which makes the world a better place as well and helps every last one of us.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So two everyone within the sound of my voice.

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[SPEAKER_00]: we want to thank you for your support of the show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You can find the episode on our YouTube channel.

46:23.816 --> 46:28.385
[SPEAKER_00]: You can find it wherever you get podcasts, including but not limited to Apple and Spotify.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we just want to, you know,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Connect with as many people as we can and let you know that you love and we also want to think again our partners at Billy Footwear and again if you are a male caregiver or father to one of the special needs disability or diagnosis consider joining us for the den the registration is free.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We meet every other Tuesday on Zoom and the registration link will be in the shoe show notes as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So let's be a little bit more

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[SPEAKER_00]: curious about each other, ask more questions, less statements, less judgment, and we love you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so very much.