What does autism mean to YOU? Part II

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[SPEAKER_03]: Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Beyond the Spectrum, every age, every need.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Today, we are going to be discussing part two.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We talked about what is autism mean to you, and we talked about the ugly.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Today, we will be talking about what autism means to you, we will be looking for the beauty in that, and talking about the beauty in life as well.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I am Sean Francis, and I am joined by my co-host, brother and thrive, and cousin Maurice McDavid.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Maurice, how are you doing?

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[SPEAKER_03]: All right, great.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We write to it in the another episode of Beyond The Spectrum.

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[SPEAKER_03]: All right, all right let's jump right into it at the time of this recording and do something at least a little different at the time of this recording only back up a little couple things first I want to thank our partners at Billy footwear.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We are on a type of fantastic relationship with them.

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[SPEAKER_03]: They are makers of adaptive footwear for all and the founder Billy Price became paralyzed by way of a

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[SPEAKER_03]: the tragic accident, learn how to do everything for themselves for the exception of putting shoes on, a prototype was built.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Billy Foote was born an over a million pair of shoes have been sold and many lives touched.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And we also want to encourage you, if you are a male caregiver, or someone you love is a male caregiver, we want to encourage you to join us for our bi-weekly Zoom meetings for a group known as The Dinn.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Maurice, why don't you just give just a quick point of view

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the dentist is just a great place for dads, men who are in a caregiving role to decompress, share our stories, be reminded we're not alone.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes cats and nuggets on how to be a better dad and a better caregiver from other dads and their experiences.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I've been a part of it since its genesis and very grateful for that community that we're building there in the day.

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[SPEAKER_02]: would encourage any man to come check it out for sure.

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[SPEAKER_03]: There you go.

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[SPEAKER_03]: There you go.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And just and I know we have more members than we have attendees.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, that's because life gets busy and then for some guys, they're like, they're not crazy, but being someplace on camera and sharing personal things and, you know,

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[SPEAKER_03]: You don't always necessarily have to do that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You'll get something out of just listening as well.

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[SPEAKER_03]: The only thing we hope you might do is just introduce yourself and let us know how you came to the dead end.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's about it, you know, we've all gotten, nobody's perfect.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We're all trying to figure it out.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And the one thing that we said from episode one, when our good friends who's in a piece of love was with us, and really there's more recent who's in it who said it, which is that no matter what our topics, no matter who, you know, what guests we may have on none of us are experts.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's one of the problems with social media and and gurus, and we forget that we all have flesh and blood.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to be an expert and I'd rather take information, not even lessons or advice, but information for someone who is forever learning, it's to me an expert has no reason to evolve and an expert knows everything.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So that is not who we are and we hope to learn from those who are watching or listening to the episode as well.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But we were talking about

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[SPEAKER_03]: just the fact that when it comes to caregiving, there are very noble things that are said and heard.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It God chooses those that are meant to deal with it or that are capable of it and it's just this beautiful thing and that's not untrue but what happens is a result especially for people like us who are both optimists by nature.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You tend to paint a rosy picture and what that can

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[SPEAKER_03]: the opposite of what we hope to do, which is let people know that they're not alone, because you're not seeing anybody else's side but your own.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so the first part of the episode, we talked about some of the challenges in the, just the ugly side of caregiving.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And we understand that our story pales and comparison to what some of the people may experience.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But we also wanted to focus on the, we found that it took up the entire episode.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Is it easier to find the good in something or to find the bad?

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[SPEAKER_03]: And for both Maurice and I, you know, our sons are young adults on the autism spectrum.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And my ugly is a little different from his.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And both our ugly are very tame compared to other situations that other people have and we didn't want to discount any of that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So today we want to look at some of the pretty.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But at the time of this recording, I'm the director of AirFDane, the past few days ago.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I may experience technical challenge and copyright challenge, but I want to share a piece of

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[SPEAKER_03]: video that he posted, it's actually on Netflix, and he was diagnosed with ALS, you share that list in the year of him, and it was very rapid, you know, his decline, but he made a recording of his last words to his daughters, and he chose to share it with the world.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's on Netflix, it's on YouTube, it's everywhere, and I think that there's something very powerful in what he's

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[SPEAKER_03]: sharing and seeing and so want to share some of that just the piece of it and see what we might get from that and use that as a as a lesson for lack of a better term okay can we just one moment here

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[SPEAKER_03]: See if it will let me do that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: These words are for you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I try.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I stumbled them down, but I tried.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Overall, we had a blast, didn't we?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Remember all the times we spent at the beach, that two of you me and mom and mom and mom and we were saying, why?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Santa Monica who I, Mexico, I see an outplaying in the ocean where hours my water babies.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Those days, but I didn't know we're having it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I want to say four things I've learned from this disease and I hope you won't just listen to me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you'll hear me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: First, live now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right now, in the present, it's hard, but I learned to do that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: For years, I don't want to know how mentally lost in my head for a long, gentle night.

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[SPEAKER_00]: While I was only in worry and so pity-shame and doubt, and replayed as soon as second-guess myself, like, shittered on this and never shittered on that, no more.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and appear so I am like a force in the present, but I don't want to be anywhere else.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The past can day the regrets, the future remains unknown, so you have to live now.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's just the piece of it, and I would encourage anyone within the son of my voice to check it out and write it down and try and live it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That was one of the things that I struggled with the very most, living presently.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He's someone that achieved a monochrome of success, but he's still stated that he did that,

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[SPEAKER_03]: So naturally human, you know, at a business meeting, there's some changes that we went through with the broker dealers that we, you know, were working with in financial services and I got to thinking about my whole path in that business and it made me think of generally speaking about

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[SPEAKER_03]: things you might have done differently if you could go back and it, I was like, you know, regret is an emotion that nobody can afford unless you really have a time machine unless you know a guy with some jacked up here in a delorean.

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[SPEAKER_03]: What good does emotion really do?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Because if you can't go back, you cannot change it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Like at all.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So with that said, I want to express my condolences to Eric Daines family and think of that nose him.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And then jump right into our topic today with that in mind.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And what we did before was we looked at the things that were

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[SPEAKER_03]: ugly or challenging when it comes to caregiving in several categories.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Socially, it's effect on our relationship with our children.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's effect on our marriages.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And then it's effect on how we see ourselves.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And then lastly, it's effect on how we view society.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So,

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[SPEAKER_03]: Let's start there, Maurice.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Looking for the beauty in caregiving.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And again, like we said, everybody's situation is different.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Not everybody's caring for someone that has autism.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And even someone else that may be caring for someone that has autism doesn't mean that it's the same as experiences, either more of ours.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But how would you say being a caregiver has affected you in a, from a social standpoint, in a positive way, or the beauty in caregiving, from a social standpoint?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Um, how that question strikes me is I think being a caregiver has saved me from some of my people pleasing tendencies, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: I am an extravert, I'm a social person.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I like to get out and be amongst people, but I think, um, no, my, my son's autism, um, and the fact that I have five children, um, and certainly has just kept me more home-based,

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[SPEAKER_02]: and not allowed me to participate or go to a myriad of events that I so often find what's I'm there.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Why am I here?

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's all right, but it's not amazing.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I get to meet some new people, what do you do?

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I think some of the beautiful parties that's allowed me to give more time to the people I really care about, to spend more time with my family.

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[SPEAKER_02]: the few close friends that I have.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And it's kept me out of, you know, foolishly pursuing some of these fun things that don't end up being all that fun.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, and I've got a, a lifetime's worth of memories of time spent with my kids.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And, and I think it really has worked to create a really tight knit, because all my, all my children are young adults now.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And as I tell people all the time, I feel incredibly blessed because there's no black sheep in our family, there's nobody that's disconnected from us and you know, try to create distance between us and them.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Although one of my daughters does live a thousand miles away in Portland, but she loves to come back home and my back shall be here next week.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm very grateful that my son's autism drove me to be more fatally focused.

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[SPEAKER_02]: and I am grateful for that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I love my kids.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I love the life that we've lived.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm grateful for the many, many, many moments that my Swiss cheese brain can't even recall, but there are many moments that I can recall and they just bring happiness and joy to my heart that I was there.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I was a part of it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They were close to me.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think it's kept me from

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[SPEAKER_02]: Some things at the world says you should be participating part of it and get there.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's not all as cracked up to be.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So I guess Technically answered a little bit of one and two because the next one is going to be It's a fix on your relationship with your case.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Of course you can dive further into that if you wish But I'll answer and say socially.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You said that

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[SPEAKER_03]: You're a people pleaser, so it's allowed you to not be as much of a people pleaser.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You're by nature a people pleaser to your detriment.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's saved you from that and caused you to care less what other people think.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I think it can go both ways in that socially because it's caused me to mine has been one of an evolution because it's caused me to

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[SPEAKER_03]: look for the good in people and give them grace.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And this is why it's such a, the topic is never ending and just one onion with endless layers.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Because it, it's, it's, it causes me to be guarded.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It causes me to drop my guard some and give people grace and look for the beauty in people.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And in an attempt to look for the beauty in people and be that person that is also

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[SPEAKER_03]: two others, it's caused me to be a people-pleaser, too, because I cared so much what other people think.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But over time, I care less.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I understand the difference between all of me refers to that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I should say, I understand that I don't have to love less to care less.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Because when someone says, first of all, when I was a kid, and people was, I could care less of anybody else, thanks.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That means that you don't care about that person, that's not true, that's the first thing I would think because as a child I was ridiculously sensitive and just like, oh no, that's so mean, you know, and as like there were everything so I couldn't take any construct, I didn't know if you say constructive criticism or construction or non thinking buildings, I don't know anything about constructive criticism, there's only criticism.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So therefore, if someone could care less, that means that P on you, they just really don't care.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's not true, you know, I guess for some people maybe it is because they're jerks, but you know, it doesn't have to be that way.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You can care about someone tremendously without caring about their opinion of you.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, specifically of you, now that you don't care what they think about anything at all, but as it relates to you, being a caregiver after a while, you kind of, you go through phases and notice that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And of course, we always say that what you bring to caregiving into a diagnosis is dictated by who you were in the life you've lived leading up to that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we don't just come out the womb being who we are, but we do to an extent, but we're shaped by our environment and everything.

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[SPEAKER_03]: that's how that you know would work for me.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You mentioned the answer to the next one, which is what effect it's had on your relationship with your kids.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You already answered that to an extent.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Is anything you want to expand on with regard to that?

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[SPEAKER_02]: I think what it is also point off for me is that and you may have alluded to this.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody comes out of the womb with their own

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[SPEAKER_02]: Some in eight traits that are true to them and maybe nobody else and having had five kids.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I can tell you they're all individuals.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They don't come out the same.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They don't come out the same.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Perception map.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I was just watching a video on the guy was saying no kid experiences the same childhood because they're born in different birth orders.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They're born with different personality events.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a different person from my first daughter than I am from my third daughter and so no child

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[SPEAKER_02]: upbringing, it's just, it's unique for each one.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think having a neurotip of course could be a neurodivergent son has really heightened for me the fact that they come out as individuals, because there are so many times I make the mistake of thinking this is autism, but then I remember my son's age and it's like, well, that's kind of what all 18-year-olds do or all 20-year-olds

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[SPEAKER_02]: And it has, you know, having had to learn a lot about development and wanting to understand about development has given me a lens to look at my other kids and go, how do I encourage them who they are?

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[SPEAKER_02]: How do I remind them that they are incredibly valuable and loved?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And almost commonly, because I think I spent so much time with my daughters and reassured them of their value.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They are incredibly picky women now.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So it's the, sorry for the man out there because they're like, but if you don't got it all, I'm not interested because my dad did this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this

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[SPEAKER_02]: or a grooming in term being able to look at my other children, look at their personalities, look at the challenge they have, and be a source of encouragement for them to help.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So.

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[SPEAKER_03]: OK, all right.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I love that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: For me, I would say, how is it affected my relationship with my children, generally speaking?

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[SPEAKER_03]: The first and obvious thing is that it's required me to pursue patients in terms of my relationship with Elijah specifically because he's the first person that's impacted by me being a caregiver.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Because the distinction between what is normal behavior and behavior of one who is neurodivergent specifically with autism, that line gets blurred all the time because

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[SPEAKER_03]: One of the things that we share in addition to being family is that both our fathers raise this in an environment where you don't speak back, you don't talk back and you do as you're told.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Now that you can't ask a question.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So when there's a certain amount of options and resistance that's given every now and then you have to remember that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: that's autism.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's not a young man being rude, telling you, you know, just give it use peace of mind.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So it's affected me in that regard too.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So then I tried to do the same thing with other people.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Where is that person coming from?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Just, you know, again, which is why one of my mantras is always, we have to stay curious, raise our consciousness all the time, think about somebody else's shoes.

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[SPEAKER_03]: The way that it's affected my relationship with my

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[SPEAKER_03]: I think, because for those that know, I'm wife and I have seven children, alleges are only biological together.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We have my wife's daughter from her previous marriage, and then we adopted my sister and those four children.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Everyone, they're all adults now.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And three of them moved out.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But there was a thought of always making sure that they knew, well, two things.

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[SPEAKER_03]: First of all, I wanted to make sure

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[SPEAKER_03]: They might be loved differently, but not more or less.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Because as a neurodivergent child, a larger head of different needs.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And we don't want that to come across as him being loved more.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But at the same time, because we might have a conversation with them, and they would say, and all we understand, I understand,

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[SPEAKER_03]: going back to what you said before, each child is different, so they receive it differently.

21:28.937 --> 21:34.745
[SPEAKER_03]: And as children, they don't necessarily have the consciousness to know that it might bother them.

21:36.247 --> 21:50.968
[SPEAKER_03]: And they may not, so you don't find out to later on as they were adults and they, and some of them have told us things like, you know, I know that Elijah has different needs, but when I was this age session such a thing happened, and please, I want you to understand because I try to make sure that

21:50.948 --> 21:52.450
[SPEAKER_03]: it's not resentment.

21:52.510 --> 21:54.132
[SPEAKER_03]: They're just discovering it themselves.

21:54.672 --> 22:05.845
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's a certain amount of that that you can't avoid and that goes back to the quote unquote ugly so to speak in that if you don't ever want to have a child feel that they're not as important or not loved.

22:06.305 --> 22:13.133
[SPEAKER_03]: So but there's a chance that some of that is just going to take place and some of it may be actually inevitable.

22:13.453 --> 22:16.737
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's another way that it's effective in relationship with them.

22:17.729 --> 22:28.241
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that's a really important point to emphasize is I've had those conversations if I had adult children as well, where I am.

22:28.581 --> 22:34.969
[SPEAKER_02]: I think my wife and I have made a concert effort to let them know they can come to us and talk about anything and not be judged.

22:35.609 --> 22:36.611
[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever that might be.

22:38.032 --> 22:44.800
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they're my kids, I love you, doesn't matter who you are, what you've done, I love you, right?

22:45.522 --> 22:49.647
[SPEAKER_02]: You said, you know, a lot of them just don't even know how to process it when they're a little kid.

22:49.667 --> 22:50.828
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't have the words for it.

22:51.328 --> 22:56.354
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't have the kind of relationship or social framework to understand what's going on there.

22:56.914 --> 23:13.032
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think for families with special needs or care, you know, caregiving situation, it's really important to not try to give advice, but it feels like it's really important to emphasize to your other children that they can come to you at any time.

23:13.332 --> 23:17.379
[SPEAKER_02]: and express things that maybe they couldn't express before or maybe they told you before.

23:17.759 --> 23:18.340
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's fine.

23:18.360 --> 23:19.802
[SPEAKER_02]: I get it, not been a challenge.

23:19.943 --> 23:31.241
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I've felt loved, but they hit age 22, they hit age 25, go, hey, you know, I really realize that this keeps coming up for me and it's something I probably need to talk to you about.

23:31.321 --> 23:40.656
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I think it's incredibly important for us to remain open to our all of our children and remind them they, you know,

23:41.075 --> 23:51.070
[SPEAKER_02]: If they come to a new understanding, they're, we encourage them to share it with us because they didn't have the ability to be able to express it at a younger age and maybe now they can.

23:51.771 --> 24:01.425
[SPEAKER_02]: And we want to continue to work on those relationships with them as adults so that they know, we're in the corner, we love them, we were, we're fallible, but we did the best we could.

24:01.485 --> 24:06.272
[SPEAKER_02]: And where I just plain blue it, I'm willing to apologize and try to make a mince.

24:06.927 --> 24:07.508
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.

24:07.608 --> 24:09.111
[SPEAKER_03]: And here's where there's a lesson.

24:09.992 --> 24:24.278
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, as far as for people, I would say that this show is called Beyond the Spectrum, because there's things that are autism, especially on using caregiving related, but it's more than that, because the truth of the matter is caregiving and, and.

24:25.422 --> 24:29.794
[SPEAKER_03]: and the like are part of, it's affected by any and everything.

24:30.175 --> 24:35.309
[SPEAKER_03]: So anything that affects the general population to fix is 10 times more so, everything is into a woven.

24:35.349 --> 24:41.305
[SPEAKER_03]: So as we're talking about children not having the presence of mine to know their feelings,

24:41.285 --> 24:55.430
[SPEAKER_03]: Hell, as adults, if you stop and think about it, again, why they love a lot of consciousness needs to be raised all the time, how often do you think about what you think about, no, you just do what you do when you are who you are, and it's such an autopilot thing, that most of us don't even know who we are.

24:55.831 --> 24:56.492
[SPEAKER_03]: So,

24:57.147 --> 25:13.198
[SPEAKER_03]: it's not unusual for want to have feelings or emotions that they may not be aware of because not everything that you feel is something that just gets on your nerves and great that you every single day from a negative standpoint and the same.

25:13.178 --> 25:15.661
[SPEAKER_03]: The same might not be quite as true for joy.

25:15.681 --> 25:17.583
[SPEAKER_03]: I think things that bring you joy and let you up.

25:17.643 --> 25:31.338
[SPEAKER_03]: It's more easy to spot, especially if you're and not going in positive person, you might not realize that something bothers you unless you're taking inventory of your emotions.

25:31.378 --> 25:40.468
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's why I think, again, generally speaking for people 10 times more so for those of us that are caregivers, it makes sense to have some time in your day.

25:40.921 --> 25:55.521
[SPEAKER_03]: to check in with yourself, see where you're at, see what you're feeling, whether you journal where you see a therapist, whether you stop and think about it because we always talk about how many of us live our lives like the matter in which we come home from work.

25:55.581 --> 26:03.272
[SPEAKER_03]: If we drive on, if we work on 95, you pull into your driveway, pull up to the front of your house, you're parking space at your condo or apartment or whatever have you.

26:03.712 --> 26:07.097
[SPEAKER_03]: And other than the fact that you didn't run any red lights or stop signs,

26:07.432 --> 26:10.116
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't really know how you got there, because you just drive that route every day.

26:10.557 --> 26:15.625
[SPEAKER_03]: And so if you don't stop to think about the route, how do you know what it is that you might be feeling?

26:16.246 --> 26:24.098
[SPEAKER_03]: Moving on, how would you say being a caregiver has affected in a positive way, again, now the beauty versus the ugly?

26:25.060 --> 26:25.560
[SPEAKER_03]: Your marriage.

26:27.704 --> 26:30.768
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the first thing that comes to me is kind of the bond of teamwork.

26:30.969 --> 26:33.232
[SPEAKER_02]: If that makes sense, it's, mm-hmm.

26:33.813 --> 26:35.616
[SPEAKER_02]: There is,

26:36.507 --> 26:45.158
[SPEAKER_02]: a person that has unique challenges, that you both love deeply, that you both want the absolute best outcome for them along with all of my children.

26:45.819 --> 27:01.800
[SPEAKER_02]: And so there's just a bond of partnership about how do we assure as best we can that this person will have the best life they can live that their diagnosis will allow.

27:01.820 --> 27:02.782
[SPEAKER_02]: And we don't know what that is.

27:02.882 --> 27:04.624
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, when my son was

27:05.009 --> 27:12.380
[SPEAKER_02]: how profound or if it would or would not be for him, whether or not he'd be able to independently or not.

27:12.481 --> 27:21.655
[SPEAKER_02]: And so they just created this common goal of providing the best life we could for Isaac and our other children as well.

27:22.496 --> 27:30.308
[SPEAKER_02]: And there was just a real tight teamwork dynamic.

27:30.659 --> 27:45.237
[SPEAKER_02]: going on and the willingness to kind of understand that their points where we both can hit the wall and it's important that the other one's able to step in and kind of take that slack in the rope for a little bit while the other recovers.

27:45.297 --> 27:56.110
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was just that that was to me kind of the strongest positive as it really created that bond of a common

27:57.018 --> 28:23.515
[SPEAKER_03]: love gold yeah yeah yeah yeah and i think so i would say the same thing so i i don't need to cop on me like yeah what you said that's my answer moving on uh but it's partially the truth but here's the other thing that i think it applies for us and i think it might for you guys too because we were married 20 years now you guys were married for 20

28:24.457 --> 28:32.947
[SPEAKER_03]: We didn't have, it wasn't so structured that we wasn't like a football coach or anything like that.

28:33.128 --> 28:35.751
[SPEAKER_03]: OK, my strengths are A, B, and C. I'll tackle that.

28:35.911 --> 28:39.575
[SPEAKER_03]: Yours are D, E, and F. You tackle that.

28:39.595 --> 28:41.237
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we go on T1, 3, ready?

28:41.257 --> 28:42.239
[SPEAKER_03]: 1, 2, 3, team.

28:42.819 --> 28:43.720
[SPEAKER_03]: Nothing like that at all.

28:44.201 --> 28:53.232
[SPEAKER_03]: We discovered through having to jump right into it, where the strengths and the weaknesses were.

28:54.005 --> 29:02.677
[SPEAKER_03]: organic that we just fill right into it, but there's bumps along the way because you discover the strengths and weaknesses by buddy heads too.

29:05.001 --> 29:05.541
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

29:06.182 --> 29:09.267
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's not just like, would you talk about the good taste?

29:09.287 --> 29:10.308
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to go down that road.

29:10.328 --> 29:12.812
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yes.

29:12.832 --> 29:15.135
[SPEAKER_03]: But do something to be said for that in that.

29:15.520 --> 29:29.948
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the good, but not to go back to the bad, but it's also why when the bad comes, why marriages don't always pass the test in the caregiving world, and why the divorce rate in our community is so high because one of two things takes place.

29:30.409 --> 29:33.836
[SPEAKER_03]: It won't, well, one of three things takes place.

29:33.856 --> 29:37.663
[SPEAKER_03]: The one thing that definitely takes, definitely takes place is the union is tested.

29:37.863 --> 30:05.380
[SPEAKER_03]: But the one of two that will take place after that is you are the past that test and you're stronger or You're afraid and and it doesn't and it doesn't not survive You know because the test is is undeniable You know absolutely, but I think there's a there's maybe an element in there that kind of has nothing to do with Having a special needs child or not.

30:05.460 --> 30:06.081
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just

30:06.601 --> 30:13.968
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and I've seen it in a lot of marriages of friends is there is over time kind of talked about none.

30:13.988 --> 30:15.449
[SPEAKER_02]: No kids have the same childhood.

30:16.410 --> 30:18.051
[SPEAKER_02]: No marriage has the same path.

30:19.072 --> 30:26.639
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and there may come a time where it again, it has nothing to do with the kids, but it just doesn't work anymore for a period of reasons, right?

30:27.780 --> 30:35.207
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, people change and grow in different paths and they find themselves at other ends of the spectrum at some point in time shockingly.

30:36.419 --> 30:46.213
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's important to kind of pull the caregiving element away from that, because it may have absolutely nothing to do with a different word for divorce.

30:46.934 --> 31:04.840
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it makes two points, which is that it doesn't, while I'm sure it doesn't apply to all situations, it applies to many, which, you know, I would say that when a marriage doesn't work out, depending on what may have happened, one can observe and say, well, if it wasn't that big, it was going to be something else.

31:05.495 --> 31:30.490
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so if it's not like you said, you pull, okay, pull caregiving out of it if the if you're not as tight, you know, because caregiving is going the caregiving aspect is going to test it anyway, but in some cases, if you're union isn't strong enough, if it's not a caregiving component, it might be hard to win blows and how long that blows because something else is going to pull it apart, you know, but it goes back to again,

31:31.634 --> 31:51.099
[SPEAKER_03]: the need for self-awareness and raising consciousness, because again, any relationship with your parent or their spouse or their relationship with yourself, if you're so busy doing the relationship and not reviewing the relationship, that's when you wake up one day and the relationship isn't the relationship, you know?

31:51.480 --> 31:54.604
[SPEAKER_03]: So the checking in is

31:54.787 --> 31:58.333
[SPEAKER_03]: the value of the check-in cannot be overstated.

32:00.256 --> 32:10.472
[SPEAKER_03]: How do you think being a caregiver has affected in the positive your relationship with yourself?

32:17.784 --> 32:18.545
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's funny.

32:18.565 --> 32:21.790
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also when you pose these questions, my mind either has a very clear

32:22.715 --> 32:29.363
[SPEAKER_02]: what that sparks me and I want to talk about or there are multiple ideas kind of popping and competing for where do I go first?

32:31.246 --> 32:39.516
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I go first is, and this is a function again of the personality I came out of the womb with, right?

32:40.257 --> 32:48.908
[SPEAKER_02]: A function of growing up in the 60s and 70s

32:49.343 --> 32:51.926
[SPEAKER_02]: there looks like there's going to be opportunity for you now.

32:52.506 --> 33:01.396
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not going to be discriminated against as heavily as we were, but you've got to kind of not give the world ammunition to shoot you down.

33:02.017 --> 33:18.675
[SPEAKER_02]: So you speak proper English, you know, get a good education, you've got to work harder smarter faster to kind of get to the same level of somebody that doesn't, isn't required to work that harder, that faster, that smart to get to the same

33:18.993 --> 33:27.865
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's so early in my life that led me to being very self-focused, not very empathetic or compassionate.

33:27.885 --> 33:29.487
[SPEAKER_02]: It just didn't really think about other people.

33:29.507 --> 33:30.789
[SPEAKER_02]: I was trying to get to my goals.

33:31.670 --> 33:47.110
[SPEAKER_02]: And that led to some really selfish, hurtful choices for the people around me, but having children changed that and then having a neurodivergent child pushed that even further to

33:47.798 --> 34:15.612
[SPEAKER_02]: the power of empathy, the power of compassion, the power of slowing down and looking at other people and their needs and how caring for them, just brought beauty and just thanks to my life that I wouldn't have gone after, had it not become a father and then had it not become a father

34:16.098 --> 34:20.283
[SPEAKER_02]: We're like my aunt even told my wife a number of years ago.

34:22.125 --> 34:26.470
[SPEAKER_02]: Mort Maurice has really changed because she knew me when I was a kid.

34:26.490 --> 34:29.954
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was a young man and very brash and very aggressive and a little.

34:30.555 --> 34:39.625
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, she credited my wife and my children as having been the engines of that change in me.

34:40.145 --> 34:47.714
[SPEAKER_02]: because she was a complimenting who I was now, the fact that I was thoughtful and caring and patient, and she's like, that's not who he was.

34:49.155 --> 34:53.200
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, let me ask you, I'm thinking of several things.

34:53.681 --> 34:58.326
[SPEAKER_03]: So for those that don't know, people that be going to fall to show, they know we're cousins, they don't know exactly.

34:58.466 --> 35:08.818
[SPEAKER_03]: So Maurice's grandfather and my great grandmother were brother and sister, and when we met,

35:09.203 --> 35:10.894
[SPEAKER_03]: We, I was

35:12.815 --> 35:15.878
[SPEAKER_03]: six, just before my 16th birthday.

35:16.359 --> 35:18.421
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, and now we're on the 60s.

35:18.481 --> 35:20.383
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's how long we've known each other.

35:20.403 --> 35:22.445
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we didn't meet at like five years old.

35:23.146 --> 35:30.474
[SPEAKER_03]: And what's interesting is you said that before and previous episodes about your ants comment into your wife, to Florence?

35:31.495 --> 35:31.635
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.

35:31.655 --> 35:34.137
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just receive that in a way that I never have before.

35:34.398 --> 35:37.561
[SPEAKER_03]: That's another reason why grazing consciousness is important.

35:37.641 --> 35:39.363
[SPEAKER_03]: And here's the manner in which I received it.

35:39.663 --> 35:40.324
[SPEAKER_03]: That was different.

35:42.025 --> 35:50.240
[SPEAKER_03]: I could see that, and as a aggressive, brash person or whatever have you.

35:50.780 --> 35:56.110
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is why I think that we're a blessing for each other.

35:56.130 --> 35:59.776
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think about it, our relationship, I'm going to try not to be the king of tangents.

36:00.618 --> 36:04.084
[SPEAKER_03]: But our relationship is an example of,

36:04.840 --> 36:18.286
[SPEAKER_03]: I think our connection, an example of divinity and something greater than ourselves, because in growing up together, I met my other cousin, your brother, Michael, first, like the year before.

36:19.188 --> 36:20.771
[SPEAKER_03]: And Michael and I hit it off and we were cool.

36:21.793 --> 36:24.759
[SPEAKER_03]: But there's nothing compared to how close we got so fast.

36:24.859 --> 36:26.562
[SPEAKER_03]: And for someone that is,

36:27.368 --> 36:44.803
[SPEAKER_03]: Brash or aggressive or whatever have you I wouldn't that's kind of oil and water ish Like I would expect we kind of get a law, but not I mean we share a room everything hit it off like that And I don't remember and it would be easy for you to hurt my feeling or something like that I don't remember you ever having done that

36:44.783 --> 36:51.533
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, and in Turkey talking about family dynamics, some of that direct stuff you got from your mom, because she was like that.

36:51.713 --> 37:01.948
[SPEAKER_03]: When your mom would speak, you would expect her to be in a club with a mic in one hand and a drink or a cigarette in the ear, because she would just fire off these barb, what, you know, one lighters and stuff, you know.

37:01.928 --> 37:10.814
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was easily hurt by some of those, and now when I look back, I was like, oh my gosh, talk about soft, you know, whereas once upon a time, I was like, man, that's for me.

37:11.256 --> 37:15.448
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, but what I was going to say, but it's funny how I could see that.

37:16.340 --> 37:20.125
[SPEAKER_03]: but yet you're the same person yet different.

37:20.826 --> 37:24.652
[SPEAKER_03]: So what I was going to ask you is this and I don't want to go back to the ugly why so I want to balance it out.

37:24.712 --> 37:30.600
[SPEAKER_03]: You said it cause you when you were younger to make some choices that were hurtful to other people.

37:31.161 --> 37:33.364
[SPEAKER_03]: If you can because you don't have to, if you're a few, that's fine.

37:33.765 --> 37:35.968
[SPEAKER_03]: Give one example of,

37:35.948 --> 37:52.753
[SPEAKER_03]: where it was hurtful, and then you talked about the opposite as well, since we are talking about the joy to the, in terms of just for an example of evolution, if you can't give one example of where it was hurtful, in terms of those choices, and then where your evolution caused you to make a choice that was the polar opposite.

37:54.195 --> 37:58.040
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, what comes to mind is my brother.

37:58.441 --> 38:02.547
[SPEAKER_02]: My brother is 11 and a half months younger than me, so we're very close in age.

38:03.033 --> 38:04.014
[SPEAKER_02]: very different person.

38:04.054 --> 38:09.861
[SPEAKER_02]: I was kind of like you said, my brother is, for example, I'm married to have five kids of my brother.

38:09.901 --> 38:13.124
[SPEAKER_02]: My brother has never had any children.

38:13.705 --> 38:16.188
[SPEAKER_02]: I was in the banking industry, he was in the music industry.

38:16.208 --> 38:23.076
[SPEAKER_02]: So kind of gives you, we were very, yeah, we were opposed in, in appetites and things we cared about, et cetera.

38:23.817 --> 38:30.424
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just was not a very protective

38:31.045 --> 38:58.116
[SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, I mocked him, I teased him as if I looked back and I feel really dirty, dirty about that, you know, just, but my brother and I are very close now, super close, we talk, often I love him the death, and I would say, you know, and I came, you know, just a myriad of smart ass remarks to him, what he is a little boy, that were hurtful.

38:58.754 --> 39:04.903
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, I would say that is an example of the ugly stuff, right?

39:06.425 --> 39:08.849
[SPEAKER_02]: Say stuff to make my friends laugh in front of him.

39:08.929 --> 39:09.870
[SPEAKER_02]: Got kind of stuff, you know?

39:10.351 --> 39:10.612
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

39:11.513 --> 39:13.716
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, what was the other thing now?

39:13.796 --> 39:18.383
[SPEAKER_02]: My head has gone so far into the kind of shame of, I was like, well, that's okay.

39:18.663 --> 39:19.785
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got something for you.

39:19.845 --> 39:21.388
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got an antidote for the shame, too.

39:21.428 --> 39:25.774
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's funny because you and I didn't, I was so sensitive that, yeah, I,

39:26.092 --> 39:31.275
[SPEAKER_03]: when we were kids you might make some make a comment that was a mockery of somebody I was so

39:33.331 --> 40:00.570
[SPEAKER_03]: solved that I would not only be hurt by what you might say to somebody and it's funny it's a mystery how we got along I would never tell you that's me you shouldn't do that because I was too afraid to say something like that but then where we connected and bonded was practical jokes I mean we loved doing that you know what I mean but what I was going to say before you get to the good and this will help you get to the good we're talking before off camera and I said before.

40:00.922 --> 40:11.555
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think I mentioned it earlier, not that I was an off camera, why I said, unless you notice I'm on with a time machine, regret is an emotion that we literally cannot afford.

40:12.276 --> 40:13.437
[SPEAKER_03]: Like is too precious.

40:13.898 --> 40:20.626
[SPEAKER_03]: So, that was your lesson and your Michael or Coles now.

40:21.087 --> 40:25.092
[SPEAKER_03]: So, it's hard if you're human and you really care and you want to grow.

40:25.132 --> 40:26.794
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're

40:26.977 --> 40:30.082
[SPEAKER_03]: arrogant and full of you, all you're going to say is, you know, I was a jerk once.

40:30.242 --> 40:31.564
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a fantastic person now.

40:32.205 --> 40:34.168
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, nobody's going to do that.

40:34.569 --> 40:43.323
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're truly interested in your growth, you're going to feel horrible about things that you did that served you the very least, or especially at the expense of others.

40:43.884 --> 40:51.616
[SPEAKER_03]: So I will say, and I don't have it on now, but I had a bracelet with these crystals that I told you before.

40:51.636 --> 40:53.659
[SPEAKER_03]: There are different things in the

40:53.639 --> 41:23.646
[SPEAKER_03]: different purposes and the ones that are about transformation and so I literally allow myself to let go of who I was because each day you're hopefully better than the day you were before and the mantra that said when you before I put it on for a certain amount of days was you know I empower myself to release the things in the energy that no longer serves me

41:23.626 --> 41:25.349
[SPEAKER_03]: those emotions and everything in a balloon.

41:25.769 --> 41:27.612
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got it in my hand and I let it go.

41:29.034 --> 41:46.121
[SPEAKER_03]: And in my case, I had a family member that I love dearly, that just showed some animosity towards me for like no reason and it was like consistent over a period of time and this is someone I love so much that I felt like I have to have a conversation with them.

41:46.141 --> 41:50.207
[SPEAKER_03]: The old me would be like, you need to tell me what your problem with me is, what is it?

41:50.356 --> 41:59.496
[SPEAKER_03]: and knowing that person and some of the stuff that they've gone through, and the way they are, I don't think they know that because I don't think they're a self-aware.

42:00.177 --> 42:03.264
[SPEAKER_03]: And so my asking would be about my need.

42:03.925 --> 42:08.115
[SPEAKER_03]: And so what I said, it did is I sent that person a text and saying, hey, we need to talk.

42:08.676 --> 42:10.660
[SPEAKER_03]: I just sent them a text saying, hey, I love you.

42:11.281 --> 42:23.232
[SPEAKER_03]: And that was because I started to examine what is it that has me so hurt is because I love them that much and all they needed to know is that I love them they need to know anything else and I let it let it go now.

42:23.414 --> 42:26.137
[SPEAKER_03]: that I let it go and it never comes up.

42:26.157 --> 42:31.262
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm still a work in progress every now and then, I'll be like, I wonder how, wait a minute, let that go, it's not wondering.

42:31.842 --> 42:34.905
[SPEAKER_03]: So I would just say, that's what's working for me.

42:35.005 --> 42:38.369
[SPEAKER_03]: Therefore again, like we said, we're not experts, we're just sharing the experience.

42:38.389 --> 42:44.795
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say try that because I know as you, I know you enough to know that you think about things you did, that's not the only example.

42:44.815 --> 42:47.338
[SPEAKER_03]: Those other things you think about, we're like, oh my gosh, did I really do that?

42:47.818 --> 42:48.679
[SPEAKER_03]: You know?

42:48.659 --> 42:53.664
[SPEAKER_03]: I could think of something that we did together, which I wouldn't say about air around like, oh my gosh, do you really do that?

42:54.325 --> 43:04.155
[SPEAKER_03]: Geez, that's so, like if I tell somebody now, they'd be like, everyone, if you think of things you did at a certain age, you're like, who was that person, you know, hopefully?

43:04.675 --> 43:18.649
[SPEAKER_03]: So now go to an example where you made a choice that is, you know, the opposite for those around you because of your evolution and your relationship

43:21.970 --> 43:35.109
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, there are just decisions we've made that we felt like put our kids first who they are and what we thought they would enjoy in their life.

43:35.129 --> 43:44.243
[SPEAKER_02]: So in certain ways we've lived an unconventional, we've made some unconventional choice, I should say an unconventional life, but we've made some unconventional choices.

43:45.164 --> 43:48.589
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, let's take a couple of those, particularly when it comes to our living arrangements.

43:48.609 --> 43:48.990
[SPEAKER_02]: So,

43:49.763 --> 44:01.744
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, when we had two children, our third was on the way we bought our first home, you know, we still live at the beach, a little, you know, a little too bad apartment, we had our two kids, we loved it.

44:02.346 --> 44:05.030
[SPEAKER_02]: We lived in Narek, along beach by the water we loved it.

44:05.772 --> 44:09.759
[SPEAKER_02]: Then the crew didn't think was to, you know, go by house because our third child was on the way.

44:09.799 --> 44:13.746
[SPEAKER_02]: So we went by our first home, we were excited about that was in the birds.

44:14.992 --> 44:16.856
[SPEAKER_02]: my wife hated almost right off the gate.

44:16.997 --> 44:19.362
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, what am I doing here?

44:19.402 --> 44:20.164
[SPEAKER_02]: Tolpeating?

44:20.425 --> 44:29.406
[SPEAKER_02]: Not my bag, you know, so she was, it's Tolpeating, like, well, it's like painting with things and, you know, have stuff.

44:29.977 --> 44:30.778
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

44:30.858 --> 44:32.540
[SPEAKER_02]: Artists, but she's not a crafty person.

44:32.560 --> 44:39.770
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was like, in some of the mobs in that neighborhood we're doing that kind of stuff and like got not me, right?

44:40.251 --> 44:48.061
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think we're in that household and we were definitely in less than probably just a little over year and decided to sell it and move back to the beach.

44:49.042 --> 44:49.823
[SPEAKER_02]: And we did.

44:49.863 --> 44:53.869
[SPEAKER_02]: We saw that house which is a four veteran, two bat, we moved, we bought a little bungalow at the beach.

44:54.249 --> 44:59.376
[SPEAKER_02]: Two veteran, one bat, then we had three kids.

44:59.879 --> 45:05.327
[SPEAKER_02]: There, so we were in 800 square feet, little beach bungalow.

45:05.868 --> 45:07.931
[SPEAKER_02]: My in-laws are like, what are you guys doing?

45:07.991 --> 45:09.654
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, that house is so little.

45:09.734 --> 45:12.078
[SPEAKER_02]: You got all six people in there, we loved it.

45:12.378 --> 45:14.501
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like amazing.

45:15.082 --> 45:17.606
[SPEAKER_02]: We sold that house and bought a bigger house in the same community.

45:17.626 --> 45:18.247
[SPEAKER_02]: That was great.

45:18.748 --> 45:19.930
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything was going really good.

45:19.950 --> 45:25.638
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we thought, you know, in California, this kind of not a whole lot for kids to do.

45:25.659 --> 45:28.603
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you go to movies, you go shopping, not a lot of nature.

45:29.073 --> 45:32.577
[SPEAKER_02]: And we had some friends move up to Washington State.

45:33.459 --> 45:38.665
[SPEAKER_02]: And we said, you know, we could sell our California house and get acreage in it.

45:38.685 --> 45:41.989
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, didn't even have a job.

45:42.310 --> 45:44.733
[SPEAKER_02]: I just told my company, hey, I'm moving to Washington.

45:44.753 --> 45:50.179
[SPEAKER_02]: You got a roll for me up there, or not I'm leaving and I'll just figure it out when I get up there, because we found house we liked it.

45:50.760 --> 45:58.590
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was working banking at the time, they were like, oh yeah, we could find a roll for you up there.

45:58.857 --> 46:27.008
[SPEAKER_02]: house and so they could California and then bought you know some acreage up in Washington and when we ran around in the mud and the rain and we had five acres of there we had black berries and a standard trees and and they just got to be kids and run around like little wild things outside and we you know we didn't have a we knew one family that had moved it up there so we didn't have a bunch of friends I didn't have a job again but it just felt like the right decision for us so um

46:27.629 --> 46:36.540
[SPEAKER_02]: these spaces where we've, I felt like we made some unconventional choices for the joy of our family, for the opportunity of our kids.

46:39.123 --> 46:47.834
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say in my younger days I would have more focus on what do I want, what do I like, what do I think is best for me, financially, those kinds of things.

46:47.954 --> 46:51.679
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess that would be my response to, um,

46:52.115 --> 46:55.364
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me ask you this, because I never thought of this before.

46:55.745 --> 47:01.821
[SPEAKER_03]: When you said, I'm glad you explained that on that, because when you talked about it, an unconventional choice.

47:01.987 --> 47:09.358
[SPEAKER_03]: that you're going to mention education, which I'm glad you didn't only because I already know that you guys decided to homeschool them.

47:09.678 --> 47:11.962
[SPEAKER_03]: But we've never talked about this before.

47:12.643 --> 47:17.430
[SPEAKER_03]: How did the homeschooling work as it relates to Isaac?

47:17.470 --> 47:31.150
[SPEAKER_03]: Because we just talked about they were all homeschooled, that's a general thing when it never thought, wait a minute, how does homeschooling and neuro

47:31.771 --> 47:37.880
[SPEAKER_02]: We were of the home schooling mindset because there are people who try to recreate regular schooling their homes.

47:38.561 --> 47:44.008
[SPEAKER_02]: And our kind of vision for our kids was that we would let their interest drive their education.

47:44.028 --> 47:46.372
[SPEAKER_02]: So my second daughter's very artistic.

47:46.392 --> 47:48.575
[SPEAKER_02]: My first daughter is incredibly competitive.

47:49.937 --> 47:54.303
[SPEAKER_02]: My third daughter is a more of an observer and quite in the background likes to read.

47:54.723 --> 47:59.550
[SPEAKER_02]: My fourth child, my son, he hated any kind of structured

48:00.020 --> 48:13.017
[SPEAKER_02]: So what was beautiful about homeschooling is we could and we spent so much time in Bartons and Noble in the bookstores and my daughters were in various book readers.

48:13.618 --> 48:20.447
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would always be mad I'd go spend 50 bucks at Bartons and Noble and they'd finish those books before even the end of the day and I was like, what's he done?

48:20.527 --> 48:22.569
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you're kidding me.

48:22.589 --> 48:25.453
[SPEAKER_02]: I should have gone more to the library, but anyway,

48:26.176 --> 48:36.617
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we had already had that dynamic in our home where we kind of let who our kids were drive their educations and their passions and interest drive what we kind of focused on.

48:36.657 --> 48:46.817
[SPEAKER_02]: We had a depth of experience when Isaac came along with resources, audio books, computer games.

48:47.337 --> 48:51.844
[SPEAKER_02]: We had all of those and had had work with those for other children.

48:52.405 --> 48:58.854
[SPEAKER_02]: So then it was just a matter of introducing these things to Isaac, kind of on his timeline, which was different from other kids.

48:59.836 --> 49:03.501
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, but Isaac can loves to read and reads really well.

49:04.022 --> 49:11.493
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's got a library of kind of educational video games when he was little that he talks about all the time.

49:11.914 --> 49:13.176
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got movies that he loved.

49:13.616 --> 49:16.821
[SPEAKER_02]: When he was little that he still has for this day.

49:17.324 --> 49:24.212
[SPEAKER_02]: for us a very natural progression, but I will say, you always have doubts about, did you do your best?

49:25.434 --> 49:32.963
[SPEAKER_02]: In the choice, you make lead to your son's highest invest ability to live out his life to its fullest.

49:33.344 --> 49:42.014
[SPEAKER_02]: And so those questions still fly around it, our minds are like, should we have put him in an ABA structured program and driven him to school and all that stuff?

49:42.054 --> 49:43.416
[SPEAKER_02]: And it just wasn't

49:44.172 --> 49:48.878
[SPEAKER_02]: who we were as a family and sometimes I feel bad for Isaac like oh he was born into the wrong family.

49:49.218 --> 49:56.387
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not one of those super organized, got a calendar, got to get him through this therapy and not therapy and that's just not who I am.

49:56.407 --> 49:57.368
[SPEAKER_02]: That drives me insane.

49:58.309 --> 50:01.593
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why I'm the career I am because I can't punch a clock or I would just shoot myself.

50:02.514 --> 50:09.623
[SPEAKER_02]: So that kind of more free wheeling lifestyle and education, where it would all of my other kids is what bit.

50:10.244 --> 50:12.806
[SPEAKER_02]: but who my wife and I are.

50:12.826 --> 50:21.274
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and so, and you are what I think most would say is a successful parent, a successful husband.

50:21.895 --> 50:26.059
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I think people have different definitions of success.

50:26.119 --> 50:30.924
[SPEAKER_03]: You have a loving family, your relationships are thriving, everyone's thriving individually.

50:31.684 --> 50:32.425
[SPEAKER_03]: That's successful.

50:32.485 --> 50:33.526
[SPEAKER_03]: That doesn't nothing to do with money.

50:33.947 --> 50:38.631
[SPEAKER_03]: And my point with that is that even someone

50:39.590 --> 50:49.392
[SPEAKER_03]: with regard to your family has questions, and so for anyone out there who's questioning themselves, it's natural to do so.

50:49.613 --> 50:55.586
[SPEAKER_03]: Just don't bruise your knuckles metaphorically doing that, you know, because it's a real easy thing to do.

50:56.308 --> 50:58.493
[SPEAKER_03]: It is as valuable as it is,

50:59.114 --> 51:07.731
[SPEAKER_03]: difficult to remember that emotions or that regret is an emotion that we don't have the luxury of having.

51:08.733 --> 51:10.256
[SPEAKER_03]: It just doesn't serve.

51:10.556 --> 51:12.941
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's one thing to look back and learn from something.

51:13.582 --> 51:17.089
[SPEAKER_03]: But regret is, you know,

51:17.643 --> 51:40.765
[SPEAKER_03]: it's like drinking poison over and over and over and you know it's not something that you realize if you figure it out at a young age that's great and again just like everything is we're talking about these are things that people who have no connection to the care government especially in these community can benefit from you know this just hit me I just bought something if you're talking about the beauty the one thing about being a caregiver is

51:41.420 --> 51:59.479
[SPEAKER_03]: It accelerates the lessons that you get in life for almost any and everything because if you think about it for those on the outside that haven't been affected by caregiving and say that's not my story, you know, I don't know anything about that.

51:59.628 --> 52:15.983
[SPEAKER_03]: Like we've always said, if you live a remotely long life, you're going to get membership into our community either temporarily by way of an injury that you have or caring for someone else, by diagnosis of a loved one, by caring for an elderly parent or something, or

52:16.132 --> 52:16.953
[SPEAKER_03]: your own age.

52:17.794 --> 52:31.807
[SPEAKER_03]: And it just so happens that all the things that matter to anybody are things like financial literacy and education, knowing your own self worth, being loved, being seen, knowing that you matter, having joy, giving joy, all those things, all those things that are part of the human experience.

52:32.087 --> 52:36.171
[SPEAKER_03]: They just matter even more so when you're a caregiver because you can only give what you have.

52:37.232 --> 52:41.937
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so there's things for people to get from what we're talking

52:43.857 --> 52:47.883
[SPEAKER_03]: in a variety and narrative ways that continue to grow and hopefully we are as well.

52:48.584 --> 52:54.393
[SPEAKER_03]: So for the last thing, how would you say, and I don't think I answered, I'm essentially interviewing me at this point.

52:54.433 --> 53:09.375
[SPEAKER_03]: But for me, the way that being a caregiver has affected my relationship with myself, from a beauty standpoint, it's hard to say this without being someone who

53:10.975 --> 53:13.817
[SPEAKER_03]: hated themselves, and I've never hated myself.

53:14.538 --> 53:26.328
[SPEAKER_03]: But being a caregiver has affected the manner of which I love myself, because I think in a way and to an extent that is more true than I did, has never been before.

53:27.549 --> 53:28.450
[SPEAKER_03]: I do love myself.

53:29.370 --> 53:33.714
[SPEAKER_03]: It's almost as close to, I never hated myself.

53:33.814 --> 53:40.780
[SPEAKER_03]: But the way I feel about me now is so light-years different

53:42.953 --> 53:48.487
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if I should say it might as well be hate, but it's just a chasm of difference completely.

53:49.149 --> 53:54.162
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is for another episode altogether, but

53:54.445 --> 53:59.792
[SPEAKER_03]: Coming from the Caribbean, from the U.S. Virgin Islands, I grew up in an environment where education is everything.

53:59.992 --> 54:04.217
[SPEAKER_03]: When everybody did is at least got their four-year degree, or they worked in local government.

54:04.658 --> 54:10.946
[SPEAKER_03]: And working in local government used to be a job that you got it for life, you got a pension, you got the whole nine yards, everything.

54:11.467 --> 54:13.770
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if that's as true as it is, you know, what was it?

54:14.110 --> 54:24.283
[SPEAKER_03]: But everyone I knew had at least a four-year degree to say nothing of becoming doctors, lawyers, and in my family, this doctors, attorneys,

54:24.331 --> 54:40.888
[SPEAKER_03]: you know senators all that kind of stuff and then I'd be thinking the other day even the language growing up people would be like you know uh what kind of grades you're getting in school you know you know you're getting an A's or B's you know for people that can't understand what I'm saying that's how we speak down there.

54:42.438 --> 54:44.902
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and, and all school wasn't even great.

54:44.922 --> 54:45.843
[SPEAKER_03]: You were like, marks.

54:46.584 --> 54:47.325
[SPEAKER_03]: You got good marks.

54:48.226 --> 54:52.412
[SPEAKER_03]: Everything, and then after high school, it was like high school was so elementary.

54:52.432 --> 54:56.338
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, where you're going to school and not college, but just school because your schooling isn't done.

54:57.079 --> 55:00.223
[SPEAKER_03]: And for me, I was like, I don't have a thing that I want to go to school for.

55:00.484 --> 55:01.425
[SPEAKER_03]: And then,

55:01.405 --> 55:07.557
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, when teachers would ask questions, I wouldn't know the answer to the questions that they would ask.

55:07.637 --> 55:11.625
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe where is the capital of Sohn's or Mr. Friedens' and they would ask because they know I wasn't paying attention.

55:11.946 --> 55:13.930
[SPEAKER_03]: And the answer had been given like two minutes before.

55:15.158 --> 55:19.625
[SPEAKER_03]: I just always physically present, I had great physical attendance.

55:19.965 --> 55:23.991
[SPEAKER_03]: My mental attendance was on vacation on another island someplace.

55:24.011 --> 55:26.415
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just always someplace else and I was always bored.

55:26.976 --> 55:29.920
[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember hearing that Einstein got bad grades.

55:29.960 --> 55:32.884
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if it was true or not, but I was like, oh, I have a genius then.

55:33.004 --> 55:34.947
[SPEAKER_03]: At least I held on to that thought for about five minutes.

55:35.728 --> 55:42.178
[SPEAKER_03]: And then when I get good grades and then I dad would say, you see, as you should be able to do that all the time, these good grades that you better get, you know, so hard for them.

55:42.158 --> 56:11.710
[SPEAKER_03]: You could get them in your sleep if you would just try But it was difficult for me and I had teachers that were familiar with our home I was familiar with theirs because I was getting tutoring and tested all the time My parents did everything they could to try and figure out what it was that was wrong and the thing that I would say for another episode is you know My experience Getting confirmation that I too am neurodivergent and it greatly affected

56:11.909 --> 56:18.301
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of weird because when you lack confidence all together, your heads down and maybe you slip over.

56:18.342 --> 56:24.754
[SPEAKER_03]: If my insecurity wasn't that obvious, I was doing a lot of like what I would call super masking.

56:25.072 --> 56:35.328
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and I evolved from thinking maybe hearing you're not smart, you know, all of my dad would say you could get these grades, you know, you're smart or whatever.

56:35.669 --> 56:38.213
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't think he was lying, but it was just difficult to absorb it.

56:39.254 --> 56:48.649
[SPEAKER_03]: I went from thinking that eventually that nobody's dumb per se, everyone has a different type of intelligence, just like a love language.

56:49.220 --> 56:55.049
[SPEAKER_03]: mind might be one that's tied to a diagnosis of some kind, but it's just a matter of language.

56:55.690 --> 56:57.452
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not even thinking about a specific language.

56:57.472 --> 56:58.133
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just smart.

56:58.294 --> 57:03.682
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, you know, it's at a you are you aren't, you know, but I shouldn't say you are.

57:03.762 --> 57:05.064
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just a different language.

57:05.084 --> 57:08.429
[SPEAKER_03]: And then now I, when it comes to myself, I don't think of language.

57:08.449 --> 57:11.093
[SPEAKER_03]: I just think if this is how I process something.

57:11.073 --> 57:22.649
[SPEAKER_03]: And so for me, you know, I found out through my own exploration diagnosis, professionals that, you know, I, you're my diagnosed with ADHD, I am 61 years old.

57:23.110 --> 57:33.925
[SPEAKER_03]: That's how old I was when I found out because it's that recent people don't understand that there's a lot of people out there that live life and don't know that

57:35.153 --> 57:38.367
[SPEAKER_03]: they may have a diagnosis within them.

57:38.668 --> 57:43.830
[SPEAKER_03]: And so for anyone that is, I don't know what the connection is between.

57:44.182 --> 58:05.767
[SPEAKER_03]: us and our children that will have a diagnosis of some kind with regards to anything hereditary, but in some cases there are and what I and where it started with me is that I began to notice from hosting just two dads, you know, a co-hosting that previous podcast and having conversations with guests, I started looking at the way Elijah does things a little differently.

58:06.528 --> 58:13.716
[SPEAKER_03]: I was impatient about I'm like, you know, I am not as obsessive as compulsive as he is with

58:13.898 --> 58:15.340
[SPEAKER_03]: I am that way to an extent.

58:15.921 --> 58:17.083
[SPEAKER_03]: Does that mean something?

58:17.183 --> 58:20.067
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that related to how I process things?

58:20.508 --> 58:25.355
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I have a much better relationship with myself and it is a work in progress.

58:25.715 --> 58:34.808
[SPEAKER_03]: It would have been easier if I was just depressed than hated myself, but because it wasn't that extreme, it's difficult to identify, you know?

58:35.309 --> 58:39.215
[SPEAKER_03]: So in this time, I decided to answer the question before asking you.

58:39.235 --> 58:42.319
[SPEAKER_02]: Now you're turned.

58:48.003 --> 59:02.808
[SPEAKER_02]: So if your relationship with yourself, um, I think that's become really really important for me, because you know, for a lot of years, very focused on my kids, right?

59:03.148 --> 59:10.180
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got five kids, they all have unique needs, got, you know, um, I play the provider role in our families, so I've got work and then I've got a

59:10.565 --> 59:16.432
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to do, I kind of vowed from the time I first started having kids that I was going to be present for them.

59:16.512 --> 59:21.658
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I've shared this on the shows other than breastfeeding and my mind, I was going to be able to do everything their mother did, right?

59:21.678 --> 59:22.059
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

59:22.079 --> 59:26.764
[SPEAKER_02]: We've been very, very, very involved in my kids' lives to their benefit or detriment.

59:26.905 --> 59:27.726
[SPEAKER_02]: You'd have to ask them.

59:30.289 --> 59:39.019
[SPEAKER_02]: But now, in the last couple of years down, they're all your adults, I really have started to look in-red at my own life and say, OK,

59:39.337 --> 01:00:07.234
[SPEAKER_02]: What brings me joy, what brings me peace, what what helps you know bring the stress levels because you know this is 2026 and we live in insane America right now right so do we If I turn the news on for two minutes, they're going to turn it off because it's It's coming at you from every direction or me even going to be a democracy all those crazy questions that are out there right so the last two years I've As I've shared for I've gotten into breath work

01:00:07.771 --> 01:00:33.627
[SPEAKER_02]: I've gotten into yoga, I've gotten into meditation and all of those things have helped me to become more clear on who I am and what brings me joy and what spaces I want to spend time in and what relationships I want to spend time in effort to foster, to strengthen and maybe some relationships that are just not

01:00:35.092 --> 01:00:42.303
[SPEAKER_02]: not good for me or no longer serve me or the person I was connected to and being willing to let those go.

01:00:42.343 --> 01:00:45.588
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I don't need to have a certain friend count.

01:00:45.608 --> 01:00:47.892
[SPEAKER_02]: If you feel good about myself, if you know what I mean.

01:00:47.912 --> 01:00:48.373
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.

01:00:48.673 --> 01:00:49.775
[SPEAKER_02]: Addition by subtraction.

01:00:49.795 --> 01:00:50.015
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

01:00:50.536 --> 01:00:50.756
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:00:51.317 --> 01:01:02.955
[SPEAKER_02]: So it really has forced me to even

01:01:03.391 --> 01:01:04.672
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that still where I want to be?

01:01:04.792 --> 01:01:11.057
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that still how I want to go about my, the time that I have remaining were both in our 60s.

01:01:11.098 --> 01:01:12.839
[SPEAKER_02]: So you start thinking about those things, right?

01:01:13.580 --> 01:01:23.908
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's very, um, that's very developmental people hit their 60s and they started asking questions when I don't want to spend this final quarter or how the time I have left.

01:01:23.948 --> 01:01:31.975
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm in that stage and and I'm enjoying some of the choices that I've made to fill myself.

01:01:32.015 --> 01:01:32.976
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you know what I mean to,

01:01:33.327 --> 01:01:55.673
[SPEAKER_02]: meet my own needs and so I feel good about that and I think being a father and then again a father to a neurodivergent child has really given me the ability to look at some of those things and perhaps some of those things and make changes in my life that I need.

01:01:55.906 --> 01:02:04.722
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to go over just a little because I want to make sure I touch and everything and then it's two things that popped into my mind as well.

01:02:05.043 --> 01:02:07.527
[SPEAKER_03]: The very last one is I'll answer it.

01:02:07.888 --> 01:02:15.221
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll ask you to answer it and then throw it to you, which is how being a caregiver again looking at the beauty has affected the manner in which we see society.

01:02:16.884 --> 01:02:19.669
[SPEAKER_03]: And that kind of.

01:02:20.493 --> 01:02:48.930
[SPEAKER_03]: wraps up all the other sub topics that came before, I think, because going back to the manner in which I see people generally speaking, I still look for the beauty in them, but there's something so one of the most valuable things any person can have in my life

01:02:49.079 --> 01:02:58.953
[SPEAKER_03]: and the world as well as the parents and people and family members who would take bullets for us, kind of muddy that up just a little because when you have a child, you have things you wish to imprint upon that child.

01:02:58.993 --> 01:03:06.844
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're a father, you want to introduce your favorite sport team to that kid or your favorite sport or your favorite artist, your favorite actor, whatever have you.

01:03:06.864 --> 01:03:09.268
[SPEAKER_03]: You're putting some of that stuff on them and some of it they take to.

01:03:09.989 --> 01:03:13.053
[SPEAKER_03]: And think about something as deeply personal as religion.

01:03:13.634 --> 01:03:17.820
[SPEAKER_03]: For most of us, we don't, if we are

01:03:18.678 --> 01:03:23.125
[SPEAKER_03]: Unless you're of a certain age and experience, it isn't your religion, it's the religion that was put upon you.

01:03:23.526 --> 01:03:28.313
[SPEAKER_03]: So it is only natural for you to not be too clear as to who you are.

01:03:28.894 --> 01:03:33.321
[SPEAKER_03]: And if adults don't think about what we think about, then why would children?

01:03:33.502 --> 01:03:41.354
[SPEAKER_03]: As children were close to the perfect, as we're ever going to get, it becomes an uphill battle to stay closer to that perfection or to creation.

01:03:41.795 --> 01:03:45.040
[SPEAKER_03]: And so what happens as you get

01:03:46.268 --> 01:04:04.992
[SPEAKER_03]: older, you know, you hopefully have a clear understanding of self and become someone that sees people differently and the other thing like for me, I used to have to appeal to somebody, not just to be like, but, you know, once upon a time I would never think this.

01:04:05.292 --> 01:04:09.778
[SPEAKER_03]: One of the most senseless things that ever takes place is discussions about

01:04:10.332 --> 01:04:16.387
[SPEAKER_03]: politics and sports and religion that usually take place in a barbershop or a water cooler.

01:04:16.989 --> 01:04:26.653
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, for example, sports, there's numbers, right, that dictate where someone is better than somebody else, or who's one more, even in an individual sport.

01:04:26.633 --> 01:04:32.143
[SPEAKER_03]: But at the end of the day, most people don't use that as a metric to determine who the greatest is.

01:04:32.403 --> 01:04:36.290
[SPEAKER_03]: They still are going to lean towards who they like, which is who they relate to.

01:04:36.611 --> 01:04:37.893
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's a very personal thing.

01:04:38.374 --> 01:04:46.869
[SPEAKER_03]: And the second it is established that you're having a conversation with someone about any subject, and that person is standing where they stand, and they're not going to budge.

01:04:47.249 --> 01:04:51.156
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you know that you're not going to budge, you know,

01:04:52.638 --> 01:04:57.583
[SPEAKER_03]: You might as well be trying to just go through a brick wall.

01:04:57.664 --> 01:04:58.585
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't make any sense.

01:04:59.085 --> 01:05:00.847
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a fruitless conversation to have.

01:05:01.328 --> 01:05:04.191
[SPEAKER_03]: And that goes back to what you were seeing in terms of the addition and the subtraction.

01:05:04.231 --> 01:05:06.253
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not a conversation worth having.

01:05:06.894 --> 01:05:15.043
[SPEAKER_03]: And eliminating some relationships or lessening them and putting them at a distance is, that's not a bad thing.

01:05:15.063 --> 01:05:15.864
[SPEAKER_03]: It's necessary.

01:05:15.884 --> 01:05:17.085
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't mean you love somebody less.

01:05:17.145 --> 01:05:19.067
[SPEAKER_03]: And of course, there are some cases where there's

01:05:19.047 --> 01:05:19.769
[SPEAKER_03]: nothing at all.

01:05:19.809 --> 01:05:25.261
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think all that ties into how it's affected the way in which I view society.

01:05:25.341 --> 01:05:28.388
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if that answers my own question, but I'm anxious to hear yours.

01:05:29.290 --> 01:05:32.097
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, again, I told you, but it's some, yeah, certain questions.

01:05:32.157 --> 01:05:35.064
[SPEAKER_02]: Automatic answer is there, and then sometimes there's a debate for me.

01:05:35.304 --> 01:05:36.126
[SPEAKER_02]: It's automatic.

01:05:36.146 --> 01:05:36.567
[SPEAKER_02]: They,

01:05:37.508 --> 01:05:45.200
[SPEAKER_02]: the caregiving community is a compassionate empathetic community because it's part of the dynamics of caregiving, right?

01:05:45.701 --> 01:05:51.070
[SPEAKER_02]: So I am, I am, I am grateful to be connected to people in the autism community.

01:05:52.672 --> 01:05:54.155
[SPEAKER_02]: You and I, particularly, right?

01:05:54.415 --> 01:05:55.677
[SPEAKER_02]: We both have sons with autism.

01:05:55.737 --> 01:05:59.163
[SPEAKER_02]: That has really had an impact on our relationship.

01:05:59.183 --> 01:06:03.550
[SPEAKER_02]: This has drawn us much closer together because we have challenges, you know,

01:06:03.901 --> 01:06:07.184
[SPEAKER_02]: weren't not for autism, we probably wouldn't be hosting a podcast.

01:06:07.204 --> 01:06:11.609
[SPEAKER_02]: Together, we probably wouldn't be in the demo together, we probably wouldn't have any connections.

01:06:11.629 --> 01:06:26.845
[SPEAKER_02]: So for me, it's the community that I've been exposed to, having to be a caregiver and then connecting with other caregivers, it's a very thoughtful, caring, compassionate community, and I've been grateful for that.

01:06:26.865 --> 01:06:30.769
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I don't have one last thing,

01:06:30.918 --> 01:06:39.105
[SPEAKER_03]: his channel in terms of the way I view society as a caregiver is that I used to think that when you meet people because there's so much of a big challenge in being a caregiver.

01:06:39.558 --> 01:06:47.790
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of like if you belong to, not maybe a gender, but a certain race, especially if you're a minority, like for instance, as black people, you know, they refer to the head nod, right?

01:06:48.211 --> 01:07:01.971
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you're walking someplace, especially in an area where this is maybe not as many black people, whatever you see somebody, this is always the head, you know, if you're looking at, at this episode on YouTube versus on Apple or wherever, where it's just audio,

01:07:01.951 --> 01:07:04.578
[SPEAKER_03]: You can envision I'm just nod my head as we walk by somebody.

01:07:04.718 --> 01:07:06.844
[SPEAKER_03]: It might be a whistle how you doing something like that.

01:07:06.944 --> 01:07:12.840
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just a matter of identifying so you think as a caregiver You meet someone their child has a diagnosis.

01:07:12.860 --> 01:07:15.647
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh, and you assume you're one of them.

01:07:15.687 --> 01:07:16.770
[SPEAKER_03]: They're one of you

01:07:17.290 --> 01:07:29.036
[SPEAKER_03]: don't assume because at the end of the day, we're all people and the other thing that takes place and how to go back to the ugly is just kind of the real and caregiving, you know, you mentioned it's a very loving and forgiving community.

01:07:29.177 --> 01:07:36.092
[SPEAKER_03]: It is, but it can also be a very judgmental one because of old, and this is where grace needs to be given because,

01:07:36.072 --> 01:07:44.992
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I belong to certain Facebook groups where I've seen people post well we're on a third TV this year because their child has violent outbursts in this match the TV.

01:07:45.474 --> 01:07:50.164
[SPEAKER_03]: When we talk people we know who have had to put their children in group homes.

01:07:50.806 --> 01:07:55.296
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not our experience and we're not to judge anyone that's done that.

01:07:55.276 --> 01:08:06.138
[SPEAKER_03]: but some people because of what they're carrying and maybe carrying it alone can be very judgmental and some people are just judgmental by nature and they want to tell you how to advocate how to care given everything.

01:08:06.639 --> 01:08:14.314
[SPEAKER_03]: And so what I've learned from that being a sensitive person, I was won't find a time crossed by that because in this community,

01:08:15.003 --> 01:08:22.736
[SPEAKER_03]: I found myself twice as vulnerable and fragile, because in a situation like this, you expect someone to, quote unquote, get where you're coming from.

01:08:23.357 --> 01:08:23.697
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:08:23.838 --> 01:08:27.684
[SPEAKER_03]: And, but they're not going to, because at the end of the day, we could be in beings.

01:08:28.145 --> 01:08:36.859
[SPEAKER_03]: And the human journey, as well as the caregiving journey, is one that is crazy, beautiful, agonizing, painful,

01:08:36.839 --> 01:08:39.342
[SPEAKER_03]: and wonderful all at the same time.

01:08:39.902 --> 01:08:43.506
[SPEAKER_03]: So we are at the end of our time.

01:08:43.526 --> 01:08:47.190
[SPEAKER_03]: Our research is I treasure these conversations that we have.

01:08:47.230 --> 01:09:03.268
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like we're not even, I think we're trying to figure this out with this new show because part of me feels because it's true to an extent as I'm trying to grow what we do and increase our reach in everything and just want to add so much value to people and remind them that they're not alone.

01:09:03.248 --> 01:09:22.116
[SPEAKER_03]: At the same time, I feel like the other reason why I feel like we're not necessarily only a podcast is because I feel like we're just having these conversations that We have that are needed other people need to get what I hope is a gift to be able to sit in on and so I want to thank you for your time today and the time that we spend doing this.

01:09:22.176 --> 01:09:22.737
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much.

01:09:22.777 --> 01:09:23.658
[SPEAKER_03]: I love and appreciate you.

01:09:23.698 --> 01:09:24.379
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much.

01:09:25.658 --> 01:09:31.567
[SPEAKER_03]: But I get you, bro.

01:09:31.587 --> 01:09:35.894
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that, that is you, and then I want to thank everyone within the side of my voice.

01:09:35.914 --> 01:09:42.064
[SPEAKER_03]: Just remember, questions have more power than statements.

01:09:42.888 --> 01:09:44.511
[SPEAKER_03]: try and be more childlike, let's try it.

01:09:44.751 --> 01:09:47.516
[SPEAKER_03]: Ish, we need love more now than ever before.

01:09:47.536 --> 01:09:56.511
[SPEAKER_03]: Try to do it here and reflect back on the lessons given by an Eric Dane's video, which you played at the top of the hour.

01:09:57.232 --> 01:10:02.301
[SPEAKER_03]: And I want to thank again, Billy Footwear for our fantastic relationship with you.

01:10:02.781 --> 01:10:07.309
[SPEAKER_03]: And we will see you on the next episode of Beyond The Spectrum.