What does it mean to be a man.. & how has it affected you as a caregiver?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, hello, hello and welcome to another episode of Beyond the Spectrum every age every need I am your host John Francis and I'm joined by my cousin and go host Maurice McDavid and today we're going to be talking about a

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[SPEAKER_00]: an ongoing topic.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like lately that the topics that we discuss are things that can't be covered in one episode.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And if you take anything in the general public or that applies to the general population and apply it to those who are caregivers or parents to those

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[SPEAKER_00]: It adds a whole twist and it matters twice as much, at least twice as much of not more.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the topic for today is going to be, what does it mean to be a man?

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[SPEAKER_00]: We'll get to another episode of Beyond The Spectrum.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's jump right into it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: First, I want to thank our partners at Billy Footwear makers of fine adaptive footwear for everyone.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The story of the founder of Billy Price is an amazing one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He became paralyzed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and had to learn how to do everything for himself all over again and he was successful in doing so with the exception of putting shoes on.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So what became a prototype became Billy Footwear and they have sold over a million pairs of shoes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You will find a link in the show notes where you can get 10% off your final price at their website.

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[SPEAKER_00]: thanks to Beyond the Spectrum.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we also want to encourage you if you are a you or someone you know is a male and a parent or caregiver to someone with special needs or a disability.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We encourage you of welcoming you to join us for our men's group known as the Den.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We meet by weekly on Zoom and

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[SPEAKER_00]: This past week, especially we had a very, very heartfelt conversation, you know, society doesn't encourage men to speak about their emotions and fears as well as triumphs and hopes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the den is a safe place to do just that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So let's go ahead and get right into it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Maurice, how you doing?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Good, good.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And that thing that we'll discuss about the den kind of really

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[SPEAKER_02]: When Sean suggests that the subject matter, I'm like, how many episodes do we have for this?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Because that is no small piece of subject matter.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm looking forward to today's conversation.

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[SPEAKER_02]: At least scratch in the surface, hopefully.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Actually, I'm here visiting my dad.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm kind of getting another look at caregiving because he has Alzheimer's and was just having a conversation with his wife.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And we were kind of on that same vibe of what it means to be a caregiver.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So it'll be interesting.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Just conversation today.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and like I've always said, you know, Elijah is now 19 and it's only been about maybe diagnosed with autism at three and it's only been about maybe two years since I've identified the fact that Laura and I are caregivers because I hear that term and my first thought was thinking of, you know, someone elderly being cared for, but it is

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[SPEAKER_00]: far deeper than that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So when you talk about what it means to be a man, there's been a lot of talk about toxic masculinity and I've heard some conversation about from those that

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[SPEAKER_00]: feel that masculinity has gone by the wayside and some that as a result of that feel very extreme and feel like women should just simply obey men and whatever have you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's go back to, you know, what our perspective is on that to begin with, you know, my dad,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, my grandfather, my dad's dad died when I was very young, so I don't have any memory of him.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But from my understanding, he was a man's man.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He was completely self made.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He did not finish high school, so he didn't go to college, but to say that he started several successful businesses and changed lives of people in his family and his community would be a gross understatement.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I grew up, obviously with my dad having a fantastic relationship with him as I do now better than ever.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And him being my grandfather's son, you know, he never told me that you shouldn't cry, but he was about being tough and strong.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it wasn't until later on in life that I realized, you know,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I remember thinking at a certain time that he wasn't affectionate with us, but he was.

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[SPEAKER_00]: His affection was a little bit of rough housing and that kind of thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I had a fairly good balance between that and what it means to respect a woman and her right to have equality.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so my idea of what a man is is somewhat I would think.

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[SPEAKER_00]: balanced.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that there's muscle in tears as opposed to weakness.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, I don't think you need to run around and, I don't know, if you cry about everything,

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[SPEAKER_00]: you know who does that necessarily serve, but you don't have to be one who feels that a woman's place is to be seen and not her just sit there and look pretty and but there's a lot of that in our society and there's a lot of back and forth I've seen conversations on other podcasts where some women are like I want to find a man who's going to take care of me he's going to pay for my bills he's going to do so and so

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[SPEAKER_00]: and I heard a comment to that response being, you know, be prepared, you know, find a woman who doesn't need everything, but be prepared or able to give her everything.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And this conversation can go

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[SPEAKER_00]: or be framed around men and women generally speaking, but like anything that matters to the general population, and matters to our community, and it's more so because think about it, you know, we're challenged as caregivers, anyway, and that's why the divorce rate in our community is so high.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But talk a little bit about what your idea is of what it means to be a man

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[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I don't know that I haven't answered for that question to be honest with you.

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[SPEAKER_02]: For me, uh, my message is to truly be who you are.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, whatever that means from your core, whatever your core says to you about living in authenticity is as a man.

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[SPEAKER_02]: To me, that person's version of masculinity.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So it's very, because I've also been exposed to,

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[SPEAKER_02]: the whole idea of some guys being simps, you know what I mean that they're very uh-huh accommodating to their women and they care for them and they're emotionally available to them and those guys are simps and then there are guys who are withdrawn, not withdrawn by very controlled in themselves and very self-assured and they don't necessarily extend themselves to

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[SPEAKER_02]: be an emotional support to their women.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And there are some out there that said, that's what women are attracted to.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know about any, any and all of that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so I kind of feel like I don't even want to try to form an opinion about what masculinity is.

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[SPEAKER_02]: As opposed to saying, if you're a man and you're living out of your authentic self, then that to me is masculinity for that man.

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[SPEAKER_02]: authentically after myself, after many years of trying to live up to the image of what I thought a man was.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I can never talk about that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I can definitely talk about kind of

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that that drive to provide for my family that that drive to provide well for my family because then that that projected well on me as a man because I was a good earner and because I was able to provide for my wife and for my kids and all these things that made me a good man.

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[SPEAKER_02]: the American version of a man was exhausting.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I like you to do two things because we mentioned the den in the opening and you rarely missed those calls.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This past week, you weren't on that call and we got to talking about because one of the guys had a very vulnerable and honest conversation about his own challenges from a man's perspective as a

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[SPEAKER_00]: It ended up shifting to as men and anger.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we've never talked about that before from a caregiving perspective.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, hmm, wait a minute, wait a minute.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's something anybody can relate to.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Not everybody's in a situation where that anger is rage and extreme.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And people are hurt or things are broken or whatever have you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But it phrase at a relationship and a marriage.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So speak about that in terms of what you thought it meant to be a man, generally speaking, and how that affected what you brought to the table as a father to a son with autism.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because if you have a daughter with autism, and we're talking about that, that's a different interaction and dynamic altogether.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So talk about that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you what that brings up for me is for many years I was very involved in a church life and I went to many men's prayer groups and men's meetings in that church circle and what I knew was acceptable was men were being work, being work,

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so those things were acceptable, but some of the other things, fear, lust, we're not acceptable, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: So you were in these environments where men were quote unquote encouraged to be real with one another, but there was acceptable realness and there was unacceptable realness.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so I look back on that now,

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[SPEAKER_02]: mindset of the old school man image right you're you're you're fight hard you get angry you know you but that makes you competitive and because you're competitive you can get ahead in the industry or in those kinds of things those were all acceptable male traits but fear on a certainty

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[SPEAKER_02]: being emotional, uncertain, unsure of yourself, a lack of confidence, those things were not acceptable.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And it make you look good as a man.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, very thankful that we're now living at age where those standards are no longer being projected everywhere you look.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And for now, when you're open and talking about,

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[SPEAKER_02]: encouraging everyone to live out of their authentic selves, whatever that means for the individual.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know if I touched on, but I think about Isaac, my son, oh, the guy, did you want to say something?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was just going to say out of curiosity, and hopefully it's not too off the beaten path, but you're talking about what is or wasn't was not acceptable in that church setting, is not surprising, but I'm curious,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anybody would have that written as a rule.

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[SPEAKER_00]: How did you find out that those things weren't acceptable?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Did somebody express those things?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And they were shunned or encouraged not to?

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[SPEAKER_00]: How did you discover that?

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of more in the vibe where the feedback you get in the room.

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[SPEAKER_02]: There were no rules, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: This is nobody's going to tell you.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's not acceptable, but you know, if I would say, I got frustrated with my kids or got angry with my kids or I kind of lost my temper driving my car, all the heads in the church print, all the men, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they all agree with that, right, and when

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[SPEAKER_02]: I found out occasions when I would share some of the things that were disturbing more deeply that weren't quote unquote falling into the acceptable.

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[SPEAKER_02]: There'd be a lot of silence in that room like nobody knew what I was talking about so I think I learned by feedback.

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[SPEAKER_02]: These are things we could talk about and get agreement on in this group.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Those other things, we don't know nothing about that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So we're not giving you feedback there or we're not part of it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so for me, this my experience, I learned very quickly, again, was acceptable male Christianity and there was unacceptable male Christianity because that's the religion I was involved in.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know, does that answer your question?

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[SPEAKER_00]: It does, and I think it, and it cheds light, you know, a little bit of light needs to lead to brighter light so often, because now it's made me think, you know, it's not limited to Christianity, and it, and this was, we didn't decide to make this episode, you know, one that's designed to promote the dead, but it's why we created it because,

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[SPEAKER_00]: those biases or rules exist and what happens is if they're written, then you can say, well, wait a minute, I have a question and ask, when it's an unwritten rule, it's a little more

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you're not paying attention, you don't even find out that that's not acceptable.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And as a result of it not being acceptable, you don't get what you need.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you don't realize that you just spend time to be an environment in an environment to get something and didn't get what you need until you've left the environment and reflect after the fact.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that's very, very chilling.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So go ahead and talk about that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll do the same.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to talk about how

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's your idea of what you think it means to be a man.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you bring to the table when you become a father, but especially when you become the father of a son.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then that diagnosis takes place.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So tell us about that path a little bit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'll make sure I do the same.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I have two sons, one neuro-typical.

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[SPEAKER_02]: My youngest son Isaac has autism and he's diagnosed at age three.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I think fortunately for me, because I have five children, I have three girls first.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So they kind of trained me about connecting, I think, on the emotional level, because they're my little girls, and I wanted them to know I cared.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so that work with them, or those relationships with them, I think prepared me to be much more open and emotional with my kids, with my sons.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel,

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[SPEAKER_02]: grateful that I had daughters first right because I think it like I said set me up to understand that it's very important to connect with my children on an emotional level and be empathetic and be a listener so that when by the time I had Isaac the fifth of my five kids, I had had years of the experience of

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[SPEAKER_02]: learning to be patient and listen and accepting of who they were and I saw very quickly having had five kids.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They all come out very uniquely different, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: There are personalities that come right out of the womb and my oldest daughter and to this day is a grinder.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean that girl is hardcore and she's always been who she is and in my sex daughter was just a little angel that slept a lot and

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[SPEAKER_02]: you know, it's always smiling and very, very introverted.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so I kind of learned through these personalities as I, as we have them and I got to know them and I got to love them that I really wanted to encourage them to be who they are.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And that

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[SPEAKER_02]: I think I did a decent job of not trying to cast my vision for who I want them to be or how I want them to act onto them and really allow them to, you know, we homeschooled.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I've talked about that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We homeschooled our kids and we really let homeschooling be driven by who they were and what they were interested in.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that background also gave me that opportunity to

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[SPEAKER_02]: not try to dictate to my sons what masculinity looks like or how they should be as boys and then now as young men.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's, that that says a lot and I commend you for that because I you've read me comments on this before that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Parenting will be having becoming a parent is a selfish thing to an extent in that you want to play a part in creation, especially if it's just generally speaking or if like I'm in love with this person and we can create a child.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And when you do that, you want to introduce to a child regardless of gender, some of your favorite things.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you hope that they like them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I would think with most men, once you have a son, you're looking at your favorite sports, teams, your favorite music, all of that kind of stuff for so for you to be a father.

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[SPEAKER_00]: with a son on the way and you're thinking, I just want him to be who he's going to be.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny, we talked about masculinity, but what's become a theme of this episode already, and you brought her up twice, and it's just really resonated with me, and I think it will, but the audience as well, which is,

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[SPEAKER_00]: the most important things to be true to yourself and, you know, your core.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so much of society tells us otherwise, because everybody's got an idea as to who you're supposed to be and just what box you're supposed to go into.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to commend you for that, because I think that's that's a very big deal.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So then talk about, if you will, then first noticing developmental delays

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[SPEAKER_00]: and up to the diagnosis of Isaac and what your thought is from a male perspective as that's taking place.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, you know, this is always kind of give this with a warning.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Isaac was very early in developing.

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[SPEAKER_02]: My son with autism was very early in words and, you know, cruising the furniture and all that stuff, so he was very early, kind of like my first daughter.

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[SPEAKER_02]: By ten months, she was walking and battling words and Isaac was kind of on the same track.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then at the 16 to 18 month mark, you got the MMR and, you know, I don't know when you start the open at canterworms, but yeah, very quickly we noticed things begin to regress using less words and less eye contact and all that good stuff.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I can't say I was acutely aware of it my wife more so when he started missing milestones again this is our fifth child so we've been through milestones and you know the kind of progression of our kids and I think a little bit after

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[SPEAKER_02]: you kind of not where he was, he's not babbling like he used to and not saying words like he used to.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And we didn't get the official, we were in the midst of moving to another state and a lot of stuff was going on.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So we didn't get the official diagnosis till right right at three years old.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I'm still kind of in the midst of

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[SPEAKER_02]: The old school man thing working, trying to make a living, trying to provide for my family.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I still had a lot to learn about being truly observant in the home and being really clear of it into where my kids were and what they needed emotionally.

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[SPEAKER_02]: This was still on the early side of my beginning to understand.

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[SPEAKER_02]: in your evolution.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly my own evolution, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: To finding my own authenticity because the other piece of my puzzle and I've shared this with you before is

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[SPEAKER_02]: you know, I'm a child of the 60s and 70s and, you know, opportunities for African-American men, the doors were starting to open there, and they weren't being as restricted as they were, and my parents were constantly saying, you know, you got to work harder, be faster, do all this stuff to be able to succeed, and I bought into that whole heartedly.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And part of that was even kind of bearing my African-American background in being as professional,

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[SPEAKER_02]: And there I say, as wide as possible, so that I could be successful in the business world.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And again, so as my kids were being born and I, it was being born, I was kind of just beginning to open the door of that journey of really finding myself authentically and in presenting that to the world.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I can't say I was particularly observant.

21:54.695 --> 21:56.499
[SPEAKER_02]: at the beginning of Isaac's life.

21:57.340 --> 21:59.605
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, wow, that's interesting.

22:00.066 --> 22:03.313
[SPEAKER_00]: In my case, you know, I met my wife Laura.

22:03.373 --> 22:05.477
[SPEAKER_00]: She had two daughters from her previous marriage.

22:06.058 --> 22:13.193
[SPEAKER_00]: We had Elijah, and I think she would probably agree, but she's never really confirmed this, but

22:14.118 --> 22:22.369
[SPEAKER_00]: I think part of the reason why she noticed his delays and I did is because she had, you know, been raising two girls and girls mature faster than boys.

22:23.271 --> 22:25.413
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't notice anything in any kind of delay.

22:25.474 --> 22:30.360
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he could, you know, pull out of my lash and I would just say, oh my gosh, he did that such flair.

22:30.460 --> 22:34.506
[SPEAKER_00]: That's incredible.

22:34.526 --> 22:36.008
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my boy.

22:35.988 --> 22:46.335
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, um, so I didn't see, and then it becomes a blur when you notice the first thing that's speaking quite to and to me really the whole

22:47.750 --> 22:56.205
[SPEAKER_00]: period where we went to his primary care physician and he said, well, some of the symptoms that you're seeing, you know, are signs of autism.

22:56.866 --> 23:01.114
[SPEAKER_00]: But the challenges, some of those symptoms are symptoms of a normal healthy child.

23:01.134 --> 23:02.997
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I could have told you that.

23:03.017 --> 23:04.801
[SPEAKER_00]: What really does that leave us?

23:05.121 --> 23:06.163
[SPEAKER_00]: So what do you do?

23:06.143 --> 23:09.571
[SPEAKER_00]: And the response is, you know, you get him into early intervention.

23:10.092 --> 23:12.297
[SPEAKER_00]: We did, and he's diagnosed at three.

23:12.377 --> 23:18.049
[SPEAKER_00]: We had speech therapists, you know, come over to the house and before we got into ABA and all of that kind of stuff.

23:18.951 --> 23:24.744
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know that I necessarily thought about something, you know, anything from a man's perspective per se.

23:25.305 --> 23:26.127
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know,

23:26.275 --> 23:37.066
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, as a child, if you put me in academics in a room and close the door and turn off the light, academics is going to be standing over me with his hands on his fist and I'll be bleeding from the mouth of two black eyes on the ground.

23:37.726 --> 23:41.050
[SPEAKER_00]: I just didn't do well academically.

23:41.130 --> 23:44.413
[SPEAKER_00]: I was always physically in a classroom, but not mentally.

23:45.054 --> 23:47.096
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was never diagnosed with anything.

23:47.116 --> 23:51.040
[SPEAKER_00]: My parents use every resource that they possibly could, but because I struggled academically.

23:52.361 --> 23:54.443
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the same time thought that I was intelligent.

23:55.064 --> 24:01.705
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought, is there anything about this that I've passed on to him, you know, how does that possibly work?

24:02.408 --> 24:07.183
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that was the closest that I could come to thinking

24:08.547 --> 24:11.872
[SPEAKER_00]: if I had anything to do with it, that I give him that.

24:11.892 --> 24:18.041
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I had as much as we hear most men talk about the whole, I just got to fix it.

24:18.061 --> 24:19.704
[SPEAKER_00]: I got to fix it, I got to just tune out.

24:19.724 --> 24:23.810
[SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't have that nor was I in any kind of denial.

24:25.212 --> 24:26.033
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's something.

24:27.532 --> 24:30.238
[SPEAKER_00]: And that have the school of thought that, hey, just throw a football around.

24:30.278 --> 24:31.160
[SPEAKER_00]: He'll be okay.

24:31.601 --> 24:37.776
[SPEAKER_00]: Just like people think, you know, he won't eat so and so he's got the sensory issues just put it in front of him.

24:37.796 --> 24:38.137
[SPEAKER_00]: He's hungry.

24:38.157 --> 24:42.347
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to eat, you know, so I didn't have too much of that kind of struggle.

24:43.148 --> 24:44.973
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you have any any any of that?

24:45.033 --> 24:45.574
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you say?

24:50.228 --> 24:55.574
[SPEAKER_02]: struggles with kind of accepting the his autism and yeah, yeah, yeah.

24:55.975 --> 25:19.662
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, well, I guess I didn't I didn't know what autism was it wasn't it wasn't as prevalent then my son's now 23 years old so it wasn't nearly as prevalent then it was we were kind of at the front of that wave of autism kind of really becoming an epidemic amongst our kids so I hadn't really heard the turn before

25:20.519 --> 25:24.806
[SPEAKER_02]: didn't understand how profound the challenges could be there.

25:24.867 --> 25:29.274
[SPEAKER_02]: So initially it was just kind of okay, what is autism?

25:29.354 --> 25:30.236
[SPEAKER_02]: What does it mean?

25:30.657 --> 25:31.057
[SPEAKER_02]: What is it?

25:31.338 --> 25:33.461
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, like any parents, what does that mean for his future?

25:33.602 --> 25:35.505
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?

25:36.326 --> 25:42.477
[SPEAKER_02]: So I can't say, I

25:44.212 --> 25:49.881
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was just trying to learn what autism is and how it can help my son.

25:49.901 --> 26:02.322
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was where my attention was in my efforts were, and I don't know that I got, you know there are people who just didn't know what it was and it's like,

26:03.550 --> 26:06.634
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was really hard to explain what it was because we didn't really know.

26:06.674 --> 26:12.140
[SPEAKER_02]: We just knew it, you know, Ellie delayed, there were challenges in connecting emotionally.

26:12.601 --> 26:29.001
[SPEAKER_02]: And really, I will say is that one of the things the characteristics that they talked about very profoundly or spoke much about was how autistic kids were had challenges connecting emotionally with the people around them.

26:29.757 --> 26:35.342
[SPEAKER_02]: And that for me and my wife were both like, we don't want that for him.

26:35.442 --> 26:37.344
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't want him to, you know, not be able.

26:37.865 --> 26:44.451
[SPEAKER_02]: So back then there was ABA therapy and there was also called kind of RDA relational development therapy.

26:44.931 --> 26:51.237
[SPEAKER_02]: And as we were deciding which path to take, we wanted him to be able to connect with people relations.

26:51.297 --> 26:59.325
[SPEAKER_02]: So we went more down that those protocols of intervention as opposed to the ABA and the very kind of rigid academic

27:00.537 --> 27:07.806
[SPEAKER_02]: structure on ABA, we are under for RDA because, and to this day, my son is very emotionally.

27:07.846 --> 27:14.994
[SPEAKER_02]: He can read people's faces and understand what they're feeling, and we're very grateful for for that capability that he has.

27:17.998 --> 27:25.026
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say, you know, we've been blessed with the same, the same thing with regard to, you know, Elijah's well, and

27:25.681 --> 27:41.516
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting, I think that, or at least I wonder if I wonder how what role having an emotionally available father plays in that taking place.

27:44.939 --> 27:47.761
[SPEAKER_02]: My God, I would imagine, and I'm not talking about me.

27:47.821 --> 27:54.928
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just talking about any father that it's got a really important for a child to know

27:55.702 --> 28:08.108
[SPEAKER_02]: the heart of their parent is open to them, that the heart of their parent is sensitive to them and their challenges, I would imagine that would be an incredible gift to the kids who's

28:09.522 --> 28:16.172
[SPEAKER_02]: Dads, and I guess we're talking about a masculine who's dad's make themselves available to their kids in that way.

28:16.392 --> 28:23.422
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not shame in anybody or judge anybody that just can't connect that way, but I would I think it's important.

28:23.843 --> 28:24.504
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll put it that way.

28:24.524 --> 28:27.087
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I would agree.

28:27.228 --> 28:27.688
[SPEAKER_00]: I would agree.

28:29.351 --> 28:37.943
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's interesting because we'll talk about this topic, you know, more, you know, other episodes, but I'm just not thinking generally speaking how

28:40.657 --> 28:50.933
[SPEAKER_00]: how not only all of this connects and what for caregiving females, you know, femininity, you know, meet to them and everything.

28:51.013 --> 28:56.462
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that again, like I always say anything that affects the general population, affects our community 10 times more so.

28:56.923 --> 29:02.952
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the definition of both femininity and masculinity have been, um,

29:03.100 --> 29:07.367
[SPEAKER_00]: should I say test it if not redefined over the last five to ten years.

29:08.248 --> 29:08.449
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

29:08.689 --> 29:16.722
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and I think that that affects society as a whole, but again, especially in our community.

29:17.143 --> 29:24.214
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so if you're talking about like the conversation I said that we had on our call the other night, we're talking about

29:25.763 --> 29:29.328
[SPEAKER_00]: anger and and how that affects because I don't it's the other thing.

29:29.368 --> 29:53.644
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even hear anything about women or mothers getting angry per se and I know that that does have to happen especially you know for those who are single but I'll tell you for for me where my some of my challenges have come in in terms of being able to deal with outbursts whether it's his or mine.

29:53.624 --> 30:03.655
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it would start with me, it would start where he went through a lot of went through a phase where he would be sleeping and just let me preface this.

30:04.416 --> 30:10.463
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not judgment, but I know there are some people in support groups that I've seen that will make comments on social media.

30:10.583 --> 30:18.391
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're on a third TV this year because it's the third one that their child is just broken in terms of anger and I know people.

30:18.411 --> 30:19.092
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

30:19.392 --> 30:28.543
[SPEAKER_00]: family members who actually have children with autism that have to be as adults put into a group home because it's just too much to handle.

30:29.124 --> 30:46.885
[SPEAKER_00]: We have been to that extreme, but there were instances where especially prior to any kind of medication to help with anxiety and sleep,

30:47.185 --> 30:53.297
[SPEAKER_00]: grab you, you know, and it'd be really loud and...

30:54.020 --> 30:59.985
[SPEAKER_00]: At a certain age, it's manageable and Laura's not as quick to kind of get physical and just kind of hold him down.

31:00.606 --> 31:03.909
[SPEAKER_00]: But after a while, I got to the point where I was the only one that could do that anyway.

31:04.830 --> 31:24.027
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I mean is the literally getting on top of them and holding him down because while he's verbally wasn't able to express that maybe what he means is a squeeze or you give it to him anyway and he's still just like screaming and trying to squeeze and grab you.

31:24.007 --> 31:46.386
[SPEAKER_00]: And just whereas you're out, down my frustrate me more than anything else, but then there's other times where maybe he's not listening or something takes place and you're just short because you're human.

31:47.868 --> 32:14.972
[SPEAKER_00]: of work, I just work to try and get myself in his shoes, you know, and in my, and sometimes I just maybe it's even the, the stemming or or something like that, which is a matter of, I feel guilty saying this too, but sometimes, sometimes often, most times, if not all the time, that's just a way of getting out that which can't be released any other way,

32:14.952 --> 32:23.000
[SPEAKER_00]: but it doesn't excuse the fact that at that given moment, you might have less patience than ordinarily what?

32:23.220 --> 32:24.281
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you were going to say something.

32:24.301 --> 32:25.302
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

32:25.322 --> 32:27.264
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't want to give a wrong impression.

32:27.604 --> 32:33.710
[SPEAKER_02]: It has been a long journey for me to get to a place where I don't get angry.

32:35.372 --> 32:40.437
[SPEAKER_02]: For a long time, with all my children,

32:40.619 --> 32:51.355
[SPEAKER_02]: If I detect it, what I thought of as disrespect, there you go, my anger, my response would would be outsized for whatever.

32:51.415 --> 32:55.481
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you ever, yeah, yeah, yeah.

32:55.501 --> 33:01.650
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't want, last thing I do is come off like I've been a perfect father and I'm no.

33:02.692 --> 33:05.496
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say it's probably in the last three or four years.

33:05.813 --> 33:16.467
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and that was really kind of after kind of grabbing my son and shaking him because he was yelling at my wife and just, you know, there was kind of no bringing him down from a big blow up.

33:17.128 --> 33:21.814
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm grabbing him and grabbing his shirt and, and my wife is going, don't you have to do it?

33:21.834 --> 33:24.517
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to call the police my, wow.

33:24.537 --> 33:30.145
[SPEAKER_02]: So it made me think about, I've never pledged my kid, but I've grabbed him really firmly, you know, and just that makes you feel like.

33:30.625 --> 33:30.846
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

33:31.046 --> 33:32.428
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

33:33.089 --> 33:34.150
[SPEAKER_02]: So, um,

33:35.024 --> 33:43.988
[SPEAKER_02]: having that said to me like, wow, I think it was a moment.

33:44.086 --> 33:48.134
[SPEAKER_02]: because it snaps something in me like, you know, my son has autism.

33:48.595 --> 33:50.298
[SPEAKER_02]: He cannot control his emotions.

33:50.839 --> 33:51.581
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm an adult.

33:52.162 --> 33:57.392
[SPEAKER_02]: I should be able to kind of be in this situation and keep my colonel matter what happens.

33:58.394 --> 34:05.588
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was kind of a pivot point for me where I no longer needed to,

34:06.445 --> 34:14.056
[SPEAKER_02]: grab him physically, I know dog or needed to control his emotions because that's what I was trying to do as corral or control his emotions.

34:15.218 --> 34:20.265
[SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, I think my ability to just kind of stay calm and cool.

34:20.285 --> 34:23.610
[SPEAKER_02]: I know this is gonna be a really weird tangent.

34:23.810 --> 34:33.924
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, I'm a football fan and all these greatest quarterbacks these days talk about the fact that they're able to kind of stay level headed, whether things are higher or low, they kind of stay even kill.

34:34.385 --> 34:43.017
[SPEAKER_02]: And it is almost feels like for me and my own life, since I've come to that moment where I could state even kill as things were going up or down or wherever they were going,

34:42.997 --> 35:03.942
[SPEAKER_02]: It's almost like Isaac's been able to respond to that, and I'm able to speak to him and a tone that really de-escalates, you know, it kind of brings him down, and even for a little while he's still stemming hard or talking ugly and angry, because I can speak back to him with a calm tone, usually very quickly it kind of brings it down.

35:04.478 --> 35:17.197
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's only been, I'd say, the last three or four years, because, you know, if he was barking or talking really loudly to my wife, I felt like I needed to step in and protect her.

35:17.237 --> 35:28.333
[SPEAKER_02]: And more protect one of the siblings, and it's like, I, again, it was me kind of going to that edge too far in my wife saying, that's, that's not okay.

35:28.734 --> 35:31.077
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't be grab it in like that.

35:31.968 --> 35:36.374
[SPEAKER_02]: It's snap something in me and it made me realize that I've got to find a different way.

35:37.616 --> 35:45.847
[SPEAKER_02]: And from that point on, I've been able to kind of just stay in whatever the circumstance is and still respond to him with a calm voice.

35:45.887 --> 35:58.465
[SPEAKER_02]: Even if he's kind of barking back at me at first and I don't take it as disrespect, it's I'm reminding myself my son has autism and it doesn't allow him to do some of the things that.

35:58.580 --> 36:04.168
[SPEAKER_02]: to respond in ways that maybe he would choose to have his autism, you know, work at play here.

36:05.150 --> 36:18.810
[SPEAKER_02]: And that has really changed the way I'm able to be with him in all kinds of circumstances that I'm very grateful that my wife threatened me with calling the cops because it took me hearing that I think to go, wow, this is, this is not cool.

36:19.691 --> 36:28.063
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's, it's too extreme a reaction to a child that has a disability or a young man that

36:28.718 --> 36:29.839
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

36:29.859 --> 36:39.569
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you know what that does for me is when I have my moments where I lose my patients, I I stop and think gosh, I love him and I would take a bullet for him.

36:39.689 --> 36:44.313
[SPEAKER_00]: If I if my patients has challenged, then so to it, anybody else is be.

36:44.373 --> 36:54.523
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that's where you worry about this, several things, which is just the day when they're not at home, whether it's in school or any other kind of setting.

36:54.841 --> 37:17.811
[SPEAKER_00]: to say nothing of the time when that comes when we exist in memory only, you know, because like, I'm a work in progress and I'm working diligently to be peaceful about it and not have him because much like Isaac Elijah is very into generally speaking with people, but especially with Laura and that's what she always tells me she goes,

37:19.310 --> 37:26.777
[SPEAKER_00]: to say this, but there's times where I'm within inches of, he started it, you know, I'm not saying that, but I'm like, he's doing so.

37:26.837 --> 37:28.899
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, how can I not respond to that?

37:29.019 --> 37:32.842
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, well, you know what?

37:34.004 --> 37:37.807
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to keep coming, you don't want to respond to how you use it.

37:38.368 --> 37:39.469
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

37:39.489 --> 37:41.671
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

37:42.311 --> 37:46.515
[SPEAKER_00]: And you just can't stop punching in the clock and doing the work

37:47.103 --> 38:11.558
[SPEAKER_00]: evolve, you know, and it's interesting that when we talk about just what it means to be a man and masculinity and everything, I just thought we thought pretty much what you've said in the beginning, which is need to be true to yourself, just like when people have such a strong desire or such heavy opponents of masculinity to the point where

38:12.112 --> 38:23.076
[SPEAKER_00]: they are threatened or challenged by feminine equality, they also tend to be people that don't like the idea of any form of homosexuality or anything like that.

38:23.216 --> 38:28.247
[SPEAKER_00]: And what made me think of is when you say being true to your core and yourself,

38:28.818 --> 38:37.972
[SPEAKER_00]: you're encompassing any and all of that, which is something that I love and appreciate, because we are who we really, really are deep down inside.

38:38.272 --> 38:45.363
[SPEAKER_00]: And if we don't connect with whatever that is or means for each of us, there will be conflict in our lives.

38:45.823 --> 38:48.848
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I think there are a lot of people that walk around angry, too.

38:49.749 --> 38:52.253
[SPEAKER_00]: And do you agree with me?

38:53.134 --> 38:53.875
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there you go.

38:53.895 --> 38:55.838
[SPEAKER_00]: And don't know why they're angry.

38:55.885 --> 39:18.028
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so, but I'm saying all that to say that, you know, if we're talking, if we're involved in evolving, that's more accurate, evolving human beings, what is it, you know, what does it say about those who, you know, might not be in there out and about, you know, where

39:18.363 --> 39:24.931
[SPEAKER_00]: our kids are in and they interact and those are the things that I think I worry about more than anything else.

39:25.091 --> 39:30.317
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm more self-aware and more conscious than most people, but I still feel like I have a lot of years to go.

39:30.357 --> 39:33.801
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the same time, a little more patient than most.

39:33.821 --> 39:45.315
[SPEAKER_00]: But if I that, which I've just described and I still have so far to go, then what does that mean for the

39:45.633 --> 39:50.779
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just a tough road to go.

39:50.819 --> 40:04.696
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell me something, talk a little bit about, because I know that in order to get where you've not gotten, but where you're going as well, what's helped through a lot and played a great role is your breathing exercises that you've done.

40:08.021 --> 40:10.003
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

40:11.941 --> 40:28.735
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, this world, it feels to me like it's built to wind you up, just politically business wise, emotionally, you know, even entertainment wise is like, I used to be a gamer, I used to play games and now I can't because the stress like games wind me up and so I've been

40:29.373 --> 40:30.655
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess it's because I'm getting older.

40:30.675 --> 40:33.539
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just keep having to pair away things that bring stress to my life.

40:34.500 --> 40:37.965
[SPEAKER_02]: So I feel like this world is just built to keep winding you up.

40:37.985 --> 40:41.149
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm putting a pin in that because that's something that's something worth coming back to.

40:41.670 --> 40:47.518
[SPEAKER_00]: Getting a read of things that that that cause you cause you stress that that's huge.

40:47.578 --> 40:47.939
[SPEAKER_00]: Go up.

40:48.279 --> 40:49.260
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to come back to that.

40:49.280 --> 40:49.761
[SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead.

40:50.315 --> 40:55.463
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so for me, I also realize as I'm getting on my body is getting tired.

40:55.603 --> 41:01.152
[SPEAKER_02]: If it feels like the older you get the more things kind of start shrinking in and turning in on itself.

41:01.252 --> 41:08.543
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I had 10, 12 years ago, been involved in yoga classes and just

41:08.692 --> 41:10.474
[SPEAKER_02]: recalled how good it made me feel.

41:10.534 --> 41:15.320
[SPEAKER_02]: And I decided, well, I'm going to start with just breathing breath work.

41:16.041 --> 41:28.356
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I just got on YouTube and looked up, I've done some kind of call meditations and they were talking about breathing and I'm like, okay, well, I really like the way breath work makes me feel.

41:28.917 --> 41:31.460
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is maybe 18 months or so ago.

41:31.480 --> 41:35.104
[SPEAKER_02]: I started practicing breath work.

41:35.084 --> 41:59.269
[SPEAKER_02]: And that whole deep breath shallow breaths, you know, there's various techniques I found were very good for me physically and I'm mostly because they bring me down, they quite my nervous system, it would just allow me to be better in my day or or fall asleep more easily at night or whenever I was practicing those techniques and then I added yoga practice on top of it so between the

42:00.363 --> 42:22.405
[SPEAKER_02]: The strain and the stretch of yoga and the and breath work, it is, it's been very good for me not only physically but emotionally, so I am, and again, it's probably a function of just getting older is I evaluate a lot a lot of things I do in my life now and I'm looking for peace and I'm looking for quiet I'm looking for calm, so.

42:22.385 --> 42:28.556
[SPEAKER_02]: I find myself kind of, you know, I've been in the gym my whole life, but I don't really do a whole lot of weight anymore.

42:28.576 --> 42:37.592
[SPEAKER_02]: Occasionally I'm getting into the weights, but usually it's more yoga or, yeah, it's pretty much these days of yoga because I,

42:39.142 --> 42:58.787
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't need the big buff muscles anymore, not that I don't like still looking you know appropriate physically well that's a funny man thing I'll be honest with you I have spent my whole life in the gym because I had an image of what masculinity look like right and you know it's broad shoulders and a big chest and big arms and so I've spent

42:59.155 --> 43:16.557
[SPEAKER_02]: 30, 40 years in the gym, trying to match that image of masculinity, and now I feel like I'm transitioning more to health and happiness and feeling whole and good in myself and not so much walking around like the big buff dude.

43:16.637 --> 43:20.102
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, it's it's funny.

43:20.182 --> 43:20.983
[SPEAKER_02]: We are evolving.

43:21.183 --> 43:22.665
[SPEAKER_02]: I am evolving.

43:22.645 --> 43:23.426
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

43:23.446 --> 43:24.267
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's funny.

43:24.328 --> 43:25.469
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe think of several things.

43:25.990 --> 43:39.971
[SPEAKER_00]: Growing up, even though my dad was the the the son and product of a man who was a man's man, he was always physical and everything, but it we had weights around, but that wasn't a big thing.

43:40.251 --> 43:42.855
[SPEAKER_00]: He was into martial arts, we both were.

43:43.556 --> 43:47.522
[SPEAKER_00]: He became a sensei and everything, and he was always

43:50.540 --> 43:59.952
[SPEAKER_00]: not against just walking around with big muscles, but I always thought that, you know, he had a disdain for being strong in the outside and weak on the inside.

44:00.713 --> 44:08.263
[SPEAKER_00]: And the people that usually get the biggest muscles and the biggest mouths will usually the scariest, the scariest as opposed to the scariest individuals.

44:09.104 --> 44:14.591
[SPEAKER_00]: So I grew up for a while thinking like, you know, even though I ran, played football and basketball and did everything.

44:14.611 --> 44:16.533
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I don't know if I want to pick up any weights, man.

44:16.633 --> 44:18.015
[SPEAKER_00]: I do not want to.

44:17.995 --> 44:19.998
[SPEAKER_00]: pick up, I just don't want to blow up.

44:20.358 --> 44:22.441
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to have to pay somebody to scratch my head.

44:22.962 --> 44:24.383
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I kept thinking that would happen.

44:24.444 --> 44:26.446
[SPEAKER_00]: My biceps would be to you just something like that.

44:27.508 --> 44:37.140
[SPEAKER_00]: And then so much so that in the 90s, with my brother and in my mind, you know, we've got the gym play basketball.

44:37.581 --> 44:37.641
[SPEAKER_00]: And

44:37.621 --> 44:39.745
[SPEAKER_00]: when they would hit weights, I'd just be like, y'all can do that.

44:39.765 --> 44:52.046
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just wouldn't, you know, and then I realized it's just so weird to think about getting back to evolution and change, the idea of working out in front of other people, to me was like, strange.

44:52.126 --> 44:55.973
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt like stuff like I should be working out and private, you know, picking up weights.

44:55.993 --> 44:57.055
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea what I'm like.

44:57.075 --> 44:57.415
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm not even.

44:57.456 --> 45:01.182
[SPEAKER_00]: Because like, do you see these guns throw at the pump-to-muff?

45:02.309 --> 45:03.050
[SPEAKER_00]: None of that.

45:03.431 --> 45:04.133
[SPEAKER_02]: It cracks me up.

45:05.054 --> 45:09.143
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, right, but then we, but we've been so close like this, you know, forever.

45:09.624 --> 45:09.984
[SPEAKER_00]: Pretty funny.

45:10.004 --> 45:10.866
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know what it was?

45:11.026 --> 45:13.391
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what it was to is my idea.

45:13.431 --> 45:18.441
[SPEAKER_00]: If I wanted to look like somebody, it was going to be Bruce Lee and Bruce Lee is more about definition than he was about me.

45:18.742 --> 45:19.423
[SPEAKER_00]: So.

45:19.403 --> 45:26.855
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I didn't mind picking a mumps, but it was never a conscious thought, but I thought it was like, oh, I'm not picking up the biggest way to maybe I didn't want to even if you see, I don't know.

45:27.456 --> 45:33.747
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I eventually, when you shower at the gym, I was shower and swimming trucks, I'm like, you're not seeing my behind.

45:33.767 --> 45:34.709
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no need for you, too.

45:35.490 --> 45:39.076
[SPEAKER_00]: And then after a while, that just, none of that matters.

45:39.256 --> 45:41.580
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I work out at home just because

45:43.619 --> 45:53.592
[SPEAKER_00]: I like the whole, yeah, it's convenient and I have them of discipline to do it, you know, but it's interesting because you talk about transforming and growing and everything.

45:54.213 --> 45:58.319
[SPEAKER_00]: My wife has, you know, gotten me into different crystals and things like that.

45:58.679 --> 46:05.027
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's what for those that are looking at, you know, on the YouTube channel versus hearing and a different platform.

46:05.067 --> 46:05.869
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a bracelet on it.

46:05.889 --> 46:13.018
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got different crystals and they each of the stones

46:13.184 --> 46:14.506
[SPEAKER_00]: change or transformation.

46:15.347 --> 46:20.954
[SPEAKER_00]: And the idea is that you put it on and set an intention.

46:21.535 --> 46:29.245
[SPEAKER_00]: And for me that intention is, you know, I empower myself to dissolve and release anything that no longer serves me.

46:29.826 --> 46:30.447
[SPEAKER_00]: I transform.

46:31.468 --> 46:42.583
[SPEAKER_00]: And in business and in life, I've had mentors that put together business

46:43.424 --> 47:00.943
[SPEAKER_00]: successful has a son by the name of Elijah who's on the autism spectrum as well and he and he would begin his training on what you call some call it a business plan is more of a life plan and you begin it by writing your eulogy and if you think about it and living intentionally

47:01.177 --> 47:05.885
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't live intentionally, you're going to hope that people say nice things about you when you pass away.

47:06.746 --> 47:11.614
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's a far cry of difference between, does that make sense of far cry of difference?

47:11.634 --> 47:12.956
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I'm just making up my own terms.

47:13.397 --> 47:20.248
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a big difference between hoping people say something about you and then engineering a life.

47:20.228 --> 47:28.197
[SPEAKER_00]: that through actions allow you to do certain things, whereby people speak truthfully about you, they will say those things because that's what you've actually done.

47:28.938 --> 47:33.023
[SPEAKER_00]: And it also starts with when do you pass away?

47:33.083 --> 47:38.208
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, we don't get to finally say, but why not plan or try to live life that way?

47:39.089 --> 47:42.253
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it would be very big and elaborate in everything.

47:42.233 --> 47:45.279
[SPEAKER_00]: then this past year I saw something that was a lot more simple.

47:46.001 --> 47:52.695
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's a short list of things you're going to do each day to make sure you make the most out of your day, month, week, year, and life.

47:53.396 --> 48:00.010
[SPEAKER_00]: But before you write those things down, clutter, you were talking about getting rid of things that don't serve you.

48:00.471 --> 48:03.297
[SPEAKER_00]: I just mentioned the intention with the press that's talking about

48:03.952 --> 48:07.260
[SPEAKER_00]: I allow myself to release myself of anything that doesn't serve me.

48:07.821 --> 48:10.027
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're talked about doing that physically.

48:10.287 --> 48:14.798
[SPEAKER_00]: I found so many things in my closet that I didn't need.

48:16.101 --> 48:16.442
[SPEAKER_00]: And

48:17.755 --> 48:35.427
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to continue to do that because I realize that I hold on to a lot of things that I don't necessarily need, though that's not limited to masculinity or femininity, but I think it applies to anyone regardless of gender and so, you know, being the best human being that I could possibly be, you know,

48:35.407 --> 48:36.629
[SPEAKER_00]: starts with something like that.

48:36.669 --> 48:47.808
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if you're not, again, you can never tire or raise in your consciousness, think about what it is you think about as opposed to just living on autopilot because it'd be surprised what it is you can do without.

48:47.868 --> 48:52.696
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you think about it and I can go on a whole tangent, you know, which you know very well.

48:52.736 --> 48:57.043
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you think about the amount of food that most of us eat,

48:57.344 --> 48:57.644
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

48:58.325 --> 48:59.547
[SPEAKER_00]: We eat so much more than we need.

48:59.567 --> 49:01.810
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not talking about being overweight.

49:01.830 --> 49:03.992
[SPEAKER_00]: I would just talk about what you need in order to survive.

49:04.032 --> 49:12.023
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you look at just surviving and not enjoying food, you could live on crumbs and water for weeks at a time.

49:12.043 --> 49:16.148
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not saying that you should ration yourself to the point of massive denial.

49:16.728 --> 49:22.155
[SPEAKER_00]: But we take more than we need generally for food.

49:22.175 --> 49:25.900
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think as we get older,

49:26.065 --> 49:32.553
[SPEAKER_00]: that which is the very most important, that's why we're able to take certain things and you know, I don't really know that I need this.

49:32.593 --> 49:33.934
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have to be something that's bad for you.

49:33.954 --> 49:41.723
[SPEAKER_00]: It might be something that serves as purpose and somebody else can benefit from it depending on where they are in life and at that given moment.

49:43.585 --> 49:46.909
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's just, you know, my thought.

49:48.171 --> 49:51.955
[SPEAKER_00]: But it'll be interesting to see what happens as we go forward into this

49:51.935 --> 49:59.503
[SPEAKER_00]: year in this world and turn, this country as to what continues to define masculinity.

49:59.683 --> 50:07.612
[SPEAKER_00]: And I so appreciate what you said about being true to one's core self, because I think that is the answer to everything.

50:08.172 --> 50:14.019
[SPEAKER_00]: And it takes me back to the whole idea of, you know, trying to be more child like less child-ish.

50:14.920 --> 50:21.807
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the closer we get to our departure for the womb, the closer we are

50:22.630 --> 50:43.795
[SPEAKER_00]: Just that that purity, you know, I've often said when my wife and I first started dating before we what I first met her sister is kids and before we ended up adopting them, you know, the youngest of the boys, you know, touched my head and he says, Sean, your hair feels like paper.

50:44.450 --> 50:59.488
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just, I, I, I, I, I laughed that it was so appreciative of that and I've like, that's the key to saving the world, because if you take a bunch of children and put them together and their different nationalities, races and genders and everything.

50:59.468 --> 51:00.649
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not going to judge.

51:00.850 --> 51:07.458
[SPEAKER_00]: They may actually ask, you know, one that's fair in complexion or white may ask one that's, you know, black or dark or complexion.

51:07.478 --> 51:11.363
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, just do you some burn like they just would want to know?

51:11.923 --> 51:23.738
[SPEAKER_00]: So we can never tire of our efforts to raise our curiosity about ourselves and each others because we spend so much time going through life being who we're supposed to be like you said, being not being true to your

51:23.718 --> 51:24.739
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the answer to everything.

51:24.960 --> 51:34.673
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, we can do so much for the world if we continue to try and figure out who that person might be for yourself, encourage others to do the same.

51:35.314 --> 51:43.866
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know that it's something you wake up one day and just, you know, you might, but it continues to evolve.

51:43.886 --> 51:52.138
[SPEAKER_00]: And this empowering asking yourself, like, when is the last time

51:52.962 --> 51:54.646
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I have no idea.

51:55.287 --> 51:58.916
[SPEAKER_00]: Which means that you're closer to just taking up space than actually living.

52:01.883 --> 52:04.128
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't have to think on that one.

52:04.228 --> 52:09.300
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I've heard you say that before, but I don't have to think on that one.

52:09.432 --> 52:11.375
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I haven't said I haven't said that one.

52:11.395 --> 52:12.637
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the block game for me.

52:12.657 --> 52:14.160
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm like, hmm, I gotta think about it.

52:14.180 --> 52:19.248
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I didn't create it though, but I would imagine for you, the answer is, I mean, you jumped out of a plane.

52:19.288 --> 52:23.755
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're, you're not, you're just like a wild adventure, but you're like, hmm, you're open.

52:23.815 --> 52:34.051
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, over the summer, we're like, we got an extra ticket to go see the Marley Brothers or you free, like tonight, and you're like, wait a minute, let me, and you move things up and win, right?

52:34.392 --> 52:36.435
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's,

52:37.495 --> 52:39.078
[SPEAKER_00]: I find depth and everything at this age.

52:39.098 --> 52:45.088
[SPEAKER_00]: She has another thing, youth really is wasted on the young, because when you're young, you don't have to stuff, man.

52:45.549 --> 52:47.312
[SPEAKER_00]: When people hear that, I was bringing that up.

52:47.332 --> 52:52.100
[SPEAKER_00]: When you hear that, you think of all the ability to run fast and jump high at a young age.

52:52.701 --> 52:53.402
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's wasted.

52:53.462 --> 52:54.444
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not just that.

52:54.584 --> 53:01.596
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like getting older is like developing a superpower.

53:01.846 --> 53:04.551
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree without wholeheartedly.

53:04.791 --> 53:05.072
[SPEAKER_02]: I do.

53:05.252 --> 53:06.474
[SPEAKER_02]: I do that wholeheartedly.

53:06.494 --> 53:14.990
[SPEAKER_02]: It does really for me it feels like it's allowed me to Because it weed out so much bullshit I believe when I was younger.

53:15.270 --> 53:20.760
[SPEAKER_02]: Just What it means to be an American what it means to be a father what it means.

53:20.840 --> 53:24.006
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean it's just like the world has fed us

53:24.188 --> 53:44.745
[SPEAKER_02]: so much crap to keep us distracted, to keep us sick, to keep us, you know, angry with one another that we don't really connect with who we are and we're not able to bring who we are to other people authentically and allow them that space to do the same and find the connection that I believe God built us to be connected.

53:45.164 --> 53:51.372
[SPEAKER_02]: entities connected beings that love one another and care for one or other, but this world is not designed that way.

53:51.633 --> 53:54.296
[SPEAKER_02]: This world is a kind of keep us as rats on the wheel.

53:54.396 --> 54:03.949
[SPEAKER_02]: So as I get older, I kind of see the The cage in the wheel and yeah, I keep trying to push myself away from

54:04.486 --> 54:06.249
[SPEAKER_02]: participating in life and that.

54:06.269 --> 54:09.434
[SPEAKER_00]: And how can you do that if you don't know who you are?

54:09.855 --> 54:09.955
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

54:09.975 --> 54:22.255
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, this show, you know, what I think everyone that's supported our previous podcast just two dads and those who are supporting this new adventure in beyond the spectrum.

54:22.695 --> 54:31.810
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's been some months between the last episodes of just two dads and the first episode will be on the spectrum, which we are, this is number three.

54:31.790 --> 54:36.719
[SPEAKER_00]: But despite that, it's still a certain amount of it that is being done on the fly and creating as we go.

54:37.320 --> 54:49.562
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think because of our conversation today, it's worth raw going back to that question that I closed that I would usually close just two dads with, which is, you know,

54:50.723 --> 54:55.895
[SPEAKER_00]: give one example if you can and I've asked you it before and the answer should probably evolve.

54:56.276 --> 55:02.269
[SPEAKER_00]: But give an example of one thought or belief that you once believed strongly, but no longer believe to be true.

55:05.472 --> 55:13.947
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think you've asked me this before, and my answer has been the same because it's been the biggest player in my life over the last 30 or 40 years.

55:14.548 --> 55:19.196
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is what it means for me to be in relationship with Christ.

55:19.617 --> 55:25.928
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was very defined by a religious system for a lot, a lot, a lot of years.

55:25.908 --> 55:30.193
[SPEAKER_02]: And that reality for me has changed profoundly over the last 10 years.

55:30.414 --> 55:37.042
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a phrase out there called kind of deconstructed Christianity, and that's where I find myself now.

55:37.122 --> 55:42.148
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, that's the big one for me over the last decade.

55:43.390 --> 55:44.631
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, wow, that's fantastic.

55:47.275 --> 55:54.784
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know which one applies for me.

55:55.591 --> 55:56.532
[SPEAKER_00]: all the time.

55:57.113 --> 56:07.729
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say in the most just pure natural sense, I'm not where I want to be, but I've made a lot of progress in carrying less what people think.

56:07.749 --> 56:13.558
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, like anything that applies to the general population, applies in our community 10 times more so.

56:14.460 --> 56:24.535
[SPEAKER_00]: The lie-gen I were in the store last week, and I think I talked about this on, I talked about it on our call

56:24.515 --> 56:25.696
[SPEAKER_00]: We were in the store.

56:26.197 --> 56:34.186
[SPEAKER_00]: When we go to the store, he wants to get this shopping cart first, then we'll pick up brochures of any and every kind, and then he'll use a bathroom.

56:34.326 --> 56:36.728
[SPEAKER_00]: He wants the flush every toilet in that bathroom.

56:36.748 --> 56:39.672
[SPEAKER_00]: And I told him, as we were going to the store, I said, you know what we should probably do?

56:40.272 --> 56:46.820
[SPEAKER_00]: You should probably go in there and use the bathroom first, then we can get the cart because if we leave the cart out here in its empty, I'm going to come out and find it gone.

56:48.121 --> 56:53.627
[SPEAKER_00]: And he didn't listen to me any sped up,

56:53.759 --> 56:58.784
[SPEAKER_00]: He and he said, you got a job in the car and I'm like, okay, so you heard what I said, but you want to get a car anyway, right?

56:58.864 --> 57:01.888
[SPEAKER_00]: He says, yes, I said, okay, then just tell me that.

57:01.908 --> 57:04.791
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is me thinking I'm really evolved and I'm not telling you about damn it.

57:04.811 --> 57:05.672
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not doing this.

57:05.712 --> 57:08.014
[SPEAKER_00]: We're doing so and so because again, that will disrespect thing.

57:08.515 --> 57:11.258
[SPEAKER_00]: So he gets the car on anyway, because that's what he wants to do.

57:11.478 --> 57:13.099
[SPEAKER_00]: He gets the brochures for everything.

57:13.340 --> 57:18.906
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, recipes from the fish market, from the butcher, just things that he's not necessarily going to use.

57:19.847 --> 57:22.129
[SPEAKER_00]: Fill them up in the in the top of the car.

57:22.548 --> 57:26.513
[SPEAKER_00]: pushes the cart near the bathroom, we go into the bathroom, we use the code, we come out, the cart's gone.

57:26.773 --> 57:30.457
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just said, this is what I was referring to saying that they would take it.

57:30.477 --> 57:33.321
[SPEAKER_00]: So now we got to get another cart and get all your brochures again.

57:33.781 --> 57:35.243
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a girl that walks by the works there.

57:35.263 --> 57:39.688
[SPEAKER_00]: And he says, excuse me, excuse me, can you tell me where the shoppink are?

57:39.708 --> 57:41.550
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, and I'm said to her, we're good.

57:41.590 --> 57:42.912
[SPEAKER_00]: He knows where the shoppink are.

57:43.252 --> 57:45.755
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm saying, and I said to him, again, thinking I'm involved.

57:46.176 --> 57:48.158
[SPEAKER_00]: But why are you asking her with the shoppink culture?

57:48.178 --> 57:49.359
[SPEAKER_00]: They're outside, you know where they are.

57:49.379 --> 57:50.040
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like,

57:50.611 --> 58:01.872
[SPEAKER_00]: He's getting upset and he's speaking from to me and this voice and grinded his teeth and he goes over to the self-checkout and there's a guy at it with a car And he's getting ready to ask a guy who's a customer.

58:02.173 --> 58:05.920
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like excuse me and I said nope, we'll come here and I grabbed him

58:06.794 --> 58:07.155
[SPEAKER_00]: right?

58:08.957 --> 58:17.509
[SPEAKER_00]: Really tight and he screamed at the top of his lungs, brought him over off to the side and I said, come down, come down, put my hands on his face, you know, on his cheeks.

58:17.830 --> 58:25.881
[SPEAKER_00]: But I had squeezed his arm like to the board where like, like, pinched him, like, you know, and I said, we have to get another shopping cart.

58:25.961 --> 58:29.486
[SPEAKER_00]: These people, you know, you know, all the carts are outside.

58:30.648 --> 58:33.392
[SPEAKER_00]: And we got right past it and it was fun and everything.

58:35.414 --> 58:42.085
[SPEAKER_00]: But when we came home, I thought about it, and I felt really bad because I, you know, I grabbed them firmly in everything.

58:44.129 --> 58:50.520
[SPEAKER_00]: He was asking them if he knew where his shop in cart was.

58:51.665 --> 59:02.721
[SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't trying to ask where the shop in the cart is, and he has a habit of if he wants something, like if I say we're not getting any cookies today, he'll ask someone else in the store and charm and damn near wink at him.

59:02.961 --> 59:05.245
[SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me, can you tell me where the cookies are?

59:05.826 --> 59:12.035
[SPEAKER_00]: And they'll go over here young man, and then I look like the prick around like, I said we can get no cookie.

59:12.055 --> 59:16.100
[SPEAKER_00]: So my first thought is that that's what he's doing, but that's not the case.

59:16.141 --> 59:19.225
[SPEAKER_00]: So we got to continue to do the work that it takes to evolve.

59:19.812 --> 59:20.453
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man.

59:21.374 --> 59:21.554
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.

59:21.574 --> 59:22.775
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

59:22.795 --> 59:24.917
[SPEAKER_00]: The hour went by so fast as it always does.

59:25.838 --> 59:29.122
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank everyone within the Son of my voice for tuning in again.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you are someone you know as a male and caregiver, feel free to join us for our weekly conversation known as the DIN.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The registration is it's free, we meet biweekly on Zoom, it will begin the link.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And one again, thank our sponsors and partners at Billy Footwear, Maurice, thank you so

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[SPEAKER_02]: New to you man.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you and for those of you again within the son of my voice.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for supporting the show and you can find our website where you find all the episodes and merch that is on the way as well at beyond the spectrum podcast dot com that is beyond the spectrum podcast dot com.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Remember try to be a little bit more child like and less child ish and Question remember the questions are a little more powerful than words more love and less judgment.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much and we'll see you next time and we love you

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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.